Do you think to date that Timothy Cheruiyot or Josh Kerr has had a better career?
Tim has a lot of Diamond league wins, but Kerr has the double indoor golds.
they both have outdoor gold and many outdoor medals, with a slight edge to Tim probably.
I don’t know how their PRs compare but would guess slight edge Kerr because 3:27/8:00 is really impressive.
what Do you think? Discus
It’s an interesting thread. I lean Kerr because his PRs are now more impressive, a bit more hardware, and he has a bit more range and success up to 3,000 (lest we forget that Tim has run 1:43).
However, I think one of the intangibles of “legacy” is how dominant one was and for how long. Tim was pretty indisputably the best 1500 meter runner on Earth from 2018 to 2020 or maybe ‘21 before the Olympics, he simply had the misfortune of only having one Outdoor World or Outdoor Championship to contend between 2018 and 2020. Kerr was only arguably “the best miler in the world”, from his global title in 2023 up until losing the Olympics but due to his racing schedule, only actually ran a handful of 1500s and miles in that time. One of which he lost to Nuguse
Do you think to date that Timothy Cheruiyot or Josh Kerr has had a better career?
Tim has a lot of Diamond league wins, but Kerr has the double indoor golds.
they both have outdoor gold and many outdoor medals, with a slight edge to Tim probably.
I don’t know how their PRs compare but would guess slight edge Kerr because 3:27/8:00 is really impressive.
what Do you think? Discus
It’s an interesting thread. I lean Kerr because his PRs are now more impressive, a bit more hardware, and he has a bit more range and success up to 3,000 (lest we forget that Tim has run 1:43).
However, I think one of the intangibles of “legacy” is how dominant one was and for how long. Tim was pretty indisputably the best 1500 meter runner on Earth from 2018 to 2020 or maybe ‘21 before the Olympics, he simply had the misfortune of only having one Outdoor World or Outdoor Championship to contend between 2018 and 2020. Kerr was only arguably “the best miler in the world”, from his global title in 2023 up until losing the Olympics but due to his racing schedule, only actually ran a handful of 1500s and miles in that time. One of which he lost to Nuguse
Adding to this, his Doha win was one of the greatest 1500s ever run.
Cheruiyot is the better 1500m runner and surprisingly it’s not super close.
WC gold, WC silver, OG silver 21x DL winner (including 5 DL Finals) 13x sub-3:30 No. 1 ranking in 1500m for 173 weeks 3:28.28 PB
Slightly better medal haul, way more wins and fast times, and complete domination of the DL circuit for multiple years. Kerr wins on PB, but he had 1450m of pacing whereas Cheruiyot only had 800m. Put prime TC in the 2024 Monaco 1500m and he’s not far behind Jakob.
Cheruiyot is the better 1500m runner and surprisingly it’s not super close.
WC gold, WC silver, OG silver 21x DL winner (including 5 DL Finals) 13x sub-3:30 No. 1 ranking in 1500m for 173 weeks 3:28.28 PB
Slightly better medal haul, way more wins and fast times, and complete domination of the DL circuit for multiple years. Kerr wins on PB, but he had 1450m of pacing whereas Cheruiyot only had 800m. Put prime TC in the 2024 Monaco 1500m and he’s not far behind Jakob.
Surprised the board is so behind Tim. I’d lean that direction with the caveat that while Tim remains very good (4th at Worlds), his days of global titles and breaking 3:28/3:45 seem over. Josh may add in those regards and already did with World Indoors. So things could change. Tim’s dominance as the clear no. 1 from 2018-20 are important for this discussion. Even if you don’t value the regular season that much it says something to look at how he was pretty much unbeatable in that span and destroyed everyone in Doha.
In terms of medals in global championships (outdoor) Cheruiyot has one gold and two silvers, while Kerr has one gold, one silver and one bronze. (Cheruiyot also has two silvers from the Commonwealth Games, while Kerr has none so far). Kerr has two indoor WC gold medals in the 3000m. Cheruiyot has no indoor medals. I'm not even sure if he has ever raced indoor.
PB-wise, Kerr is slightly ahead. 3:27.79 vs 3:28.28. I have to say that I have NO doubt in my mind that Cheruiyot in his prime could've broken 3:28 by a comfortable margin, considering his 3:29.26 solo/front-run in Doha 2019, as well as two 3:28 races with atrociously bad pacing. Lausanne 2019 (3:28.77 with a 800m split of 1:49) and Monaco 2020 (3:28.45, going through 400m in 52.x and 800m in 1:51ish if I remember correctly)
Kerr has broken 3:30 five times, and 3:29 and 3:28 one time. Cheruiyot has broken 3:30 13 times, and 3:29 five times, but never gone sub-3:28. Kerr has broken 3:30 in four different seasons, while Cheruiyot has done it in eight different seasons.
If I've counted correctly, Cheruiyot has won 18 1500m DL races. Kerr has actually never won a 1500m DL race (he has two 2nd places, and one 3rd place) In the mile Cheruiyot has two victories and Kerr has one DL victory.
Cheruiyot was almost untouchable in the 2018-2021 era (except the Tokyo 2021 final ofc) From 2022 he has been more incosistent, but he has had a great race every once in a while.
In the 3000m/two mile Kerr is far ahead of Cheruiyot with his 8:00.67 record (and 7:30.14 split) vs Cheruiyot's 7:36.72. But in the 800m it's the other way around with Cheruiyot's 1:43.11 vs Kerr's 1:45.01.
In terms of global finals, Kerr has reached six finals between 2019 and 2025, while Cheruiyot has reached seven finals between 2015 and 2025
There are more things to take into account of course, but I feel like I've covered the most important ones.
It's a bit hard to decide. Kerr has a knack of really rise to the occasion in championships, and he has show range considering his two World Indoor Championships golds in the 3000m. But Cheruiyot has been way more consistent and dominating in his prime (as well as competing more frequently) I'm leaning toward Cheruiyot.
This post was edited 3 minutes after it was posted.
In terms of medals in global championships (outdoor) Cheruiyot has one gold and two silvers, while Kerr has one gold, one silver and one bronze. (Cheruiyot also has two silvers from the Commonwealth Games, while Kerr has none so far). Kerr has two indoor WC gold medals in the 3000m. Cheruiyot has no indoor medals. I'm not even sure if he has ever raced indoor.
PB-wise, Kerr is slightly ahead. 3:27.79 vs 3:28.28. I have to say that I have NO doubt in my mind that Cheruiyot in his prime could've broken 3:28 by a comfortable margin, considering his 3:29.26 solo/front-run in Doha 2019, as well as two 3:28 races with atrociously bad pacing. Lausanne 2019 (3:28.77 with a 800m split of 1:49) and Monaco 2020 (3:28.45, going through 400m in 52.x and 800m in 1:51ish if I remember correctly)
Kerr has broken 3:30 five times, and 3:29 and 3:28 one time. Cheruiyot has broken 3:30 13 times, and 3:29 five times, but never gone sub-3:28. Kerr has broken 3:30 in four different seasons, while Cheruiyot has done it in eight different seasons.
If I've counted correctly, Cheruiyot has won 18 1500m DL races. Kerr has actually never won a 1500m DL race (he has two 2nd places, and one 3rd place) In the mile Cheruiyot has two victories and Kerr has one DL victory.
Cheruiyot was almost untouchable in the 2018-2021 era (except the Tokyo 2021 final ofc) From 2022 he has been more incosistent, but he has had a great race every once in a while.
In the 3000m/two mile Kerr is far ahead of Cheruiyot with his 8:00.67 record (and 7:30.14 split) vs Cheruiyot's 7:36.72. But in the 800m it's the other way around with Cheruiyot's 1:43.11 vs Kerr's 1:45.01.
In terms of global finals, Kerr has reached six finals between 2019 and 2025, while Cheruiyot has reached seven finals between 2015 and 2025
There are more things to take into account of course, but I feel like I've covered the most important ones.
It's a bit hard to decide. Kerr has a knack of really rise to the occasion in championships, and he has show range considering his two World Indoor Championships golds in the 3000m. But Cheruiyot has been way more consistent and dominating in his prime (as well as competing more frequently) I'm leaning toward Cheruiyot.
I think Tim’s four DL titles are better than any of Kerr’s 2 Indoor WC golds.
Cheruiyot is the better 1500m runner and surprisingly it’s not super close.
WC gold, WC silver, OG silver 21x DL winner (including 5 DL Finals) 13x sub-3:30 No. 1 ranking in 1500m for 173 weeks 3:28.28 PB
Slightly better medal haul, way more wins and fast times, and complete domination of the DL circuit for multiple years. Kerr wins on PB, but he had 1450m of pacing whereas Cheruiyot only had 800m. Put prime TC in the 2024 Monaco 1500m and he’s not far behind Jakob.
Honestly if you put prime Tim C in the Paris 2024 final you can very well argue he splits up the medalists and maybe finishes 2nd behind Hocker.
Cheruiyot is the better 1500m runner and surprisingly it’s not super close.
WC gold, WC silver, OG silver 21x DL winner (including 5 DL Finals) 13x sub-3:30 No. 1 ranking in 1500m for 173 weeks 3:28.28 PB
Slightly better medal haul, way more wins and fast times, and complete domination of the DL circuit for multiple years. Kerr wins on PB, but he had 1450m of pacing whereas Cheruiyot only had 800m. Put prime TC in the 2024 Monaco 1500m and he’s not far behind Jakob.
Honestly if you put prime Tim C in the Paris 2024 final you can very well argue he splits up the medalists and maybe finishes 2nd behind Hocker.
Well prime Tim C was better than all those guys fitness wise, tactics and pacing were his only downfall
A lot of people credit Jakob with bringing in this new era of lightning fast championship racing, but at the start of his career it was Tim he was chasing.
As an aside, with all the East African talent that seems to come and go each year, Tim is still here and competing at a high level, albeit with much worse championship results.
A lot of people credit Jakob with bringing in this new era of lightning fast championship racing, but at the start of his career it was Tim he was chasing.
As an aside, with all the East African talent that seems to come and go each year, Tim is still here and competing at a high level, albeit with much worse championship results.
Agree. Although even the “much worse” is somewhat overstated. He got 6th in 2022 and 4th last year.
Honestly if you put prime Tim C in the Paris 2024 final you can very well argue he splits up the medalists and maybe finishes 2nd behind Hocker.
Well prime Tim C was better than all those guys fitness wise, tactics and pacing were his only downfall
Actually now that I think about it again, he probably has a good case to win that race in Monaco form. A guy who manages to hold on to run 3:28 low after a 52.mid opening lap wouldn't feel too bad after following behind Jakob in 54.9.
But then it's not guaranteed if Jakob would decide to lead knowing another guy with 3:26:xx fitness is in the field.
Kerr is the better athlete. Cheruiyot was at his peak at the right time - when competition was a little weaker than what Kerr has faced. Cheruiyot is a great athlete, but Kerr is one of the best of all time.
This post was edited 59 seconds after it was posted.
Kerr is the better athlete. Cheruiyot was at his peak at the right time - when competition was a little weaker than what Kerr has faced. Cheruiyot is a great athlete, but Kerr is one of the best of all time.
I think Kerr will have to do more to prove that.
Who has the better medal haul right now? Tim C.
Who has the best single performance? Tim C. (Doha).
Who has more season Diamond League titles? Tim C. (4 to 0)
Who has more individual Diamond League wins? Tim C. (21-1, as far as I can tell).
Obviously, Kerr is disliked on these boards so he was never going to come out of this better than the eminently likeable Tim C. But Kerr has had the better overall career. More medals, more Olympic medals, better PBs over the 1500, mile, and 3k. And he'll probably add to the medal tally before he retires.
I'll say this for Tim C: he was a better DL runner, and he was the last person to truly dominate the 1500. If the Tokyo Olympics hadn't been delayed, he'd be a gold medallist. Even Jakob at his peak wasn't as dominant as peak Tim C, who looked untouchable in both TTs and championship races. I hope he has one last Wightman-style hurrah left in him
Do you think to date that Timothy Cheruiyot or Josh Kerr has had a better career?
Tim has a lot of Diamond league wins, but Kerr has the double indoor golds.
they both have outdoor gold and many outdoor medals, with a slight edge to Tim probably.
I don’t know how their PRs compare but would guess slight edge Kerr because 3:27/8:00 is really impressive.
what Do you think? Discus
It’s an interesting thread. I lean Kerr because his PRs are now more impressive, a bit more hardware, and he has a bit more range and success up to 3,000 (lest we forget that Tim has run 1:43).
However, I think one of the intangibles of “legacy” is how dominant one was and for how long. Tim was pretty indisputably the best 1500 meter runner on Earth from 2018 to 2020 or maybe ‘21 before the Olympics, he simply had the misfortune of only having one Outdoor World or Outdoor Championship to contend between 2018 and 2020. Kerr was only arguably “the best miler in the world”, from his global title in 2023 up until losing the Olympics but due to his racing schedule, only actually ran a handful of 1500s and miles in that time. One of which he lost to Nuguse
After your salient point at the end, you still lean Kerr?