Brits at the sound ten

Leonard DNF again, I don't believe it. Or maybe I do.

You can post all the flashy stuff you like on social media, it's race results that count.

Didn’t watch it, just seen the results, but you’d have hoped for a bit more across the board not just Leonard, but Beattie and Mullarkey as well.
That said, Leonard’s the main concern now. It’s not just a bad day it keeps happening. WC wasn’t great and now another DNF and at this level that’s just not good enough simple as that. Either something’s not right behind the scenes or he’s just not at the standard needed.
When you think about it, lads like Jon Brown and Eamonn Martin were running faster on the track nearly 30 years ago, so it does put things into perspective a bit.
Maybe he needs to step away from the track for a while and look at the roads. Plenty have made that move and got more out of themselves might suit him better than trying to hang on at this level when the form just isn’t there.

Foster, Bedford and Simmons running faster 45 plus years ago.

How much more were you expecting from Beattie and Mullarkey? Race was set up you either went sub 27 or 27.20s.

Can hardly say your expecting either of them to be tackling sub 27.

The strongest depth that British 10,000m running has had in recent years by far. 9 guys with the European standard (27.50)

And no British women finished!

It was a total washout for the Brits. With something actually on the line with Euros and CWGs selection coming up. Mullarkey is had to gauge as he's pretty new to the elite scene, but Beattie should be sub-27:10 by now. The women were probably worse. If you're not sub-32 after a year on the pro scene then what's the point? It's harsh, but the fact is that British distance running is structurally broken. None of them are spending significant time at altitude, you just not going to be an elite 10k runner while based in Manchester. You know which British distance runner does spend a lot of the year at altitude? George Mills. Yes, he's a chaotic racer, but he's also run 12:46. It's an era when Western runners can be competitive at the long distances and British runners continue to under-perform. Can't hide behind the East African dominance any more.

Makou lot are good but defo overrate themselves a bit. Still far too inconsistent, and Efrem dropping out as wel and Leanord another poor showing, got to be a mental thing with him and all of his dnf over the years.
Paddy Dever would’ve cooked the rest of the brits on the showing of his half last week at New York even in full marathon training.

It is harsh to blame the guys who are out there doing their best. Who's to say there are not maxing out their potential. Why should Beattie be sub 27:10 by now? 27:23 is about what I would expect. Don't blame the best guys we have got. They should be celebrated and encouraged. It's not their fault we as a nation are not producing elite 5 and 10k runners.

Eamon Martin and Jon Brown mentioned in other comments above were truly world class. Brown was Euro cross country champ, top 10 ish in world cross when everyone did it, 4th in the Olympics twice, Martin won the London marathon and frant ran 27:23 in Oslo to win the race. The current guys are not anywhere near their level so it is not surprising to me they can't run faster even with today's advantages.

I agree to a point about spending time at altitude but the main problem is a lack of numbers competing at elite level. The more guys we have the more likely we are to find a world beater. We have a culture through BMC etc. and the expertise and role models to generate world class middle distance runners. We don't have the same for 5 and 10k. There is not incentive when the qualifying times are so tough and even if achieved world athletics standard / quota we don't always take full teams. It's no wonder people stick to middle distances or turn to the roads.

We don't have an NCAA system churning out loads of sub 28 min guys every year. If we want to generate some top 5 and 10k guys we probably need some of the top 15 guys with good endurance to step up, keep the best we have in those events e.g. Marc Scott and a governing body that supports the level below the top elite. It takes years to get to your potential in longer distances. They think far too short term and support athletes that have already made it not the people who actually need their help. I don't see a structure or pathway for 5 and 10k runners.

10k track is a dieing as an event in any case. There is only one or two 10ks on the track with a realistic chance to get the world or Olympics (or Euros) qualifying time. Hard to think why many people would dedicate themselves to the event.

27.20 around the time of Brown or Martin are worth so much more. They were in and around the top 15 in the world at the time. The guys today are running similar times but the shoes and tracks are worth so much…. The only way you can compare performances is to look at world rankings, you can’t compare times. Look at the marathon, guys like Jones, Spedding, Neurekar were amongst the best in the world… other than Cariss I don’t think any of the others are truly world class and a 2.06 today is probably a 2.10 in the 80s.

Sarah Astin (Makou) also with a DNF and Hannah Irwin with a finish but way over her PB and a self-admitted tough race. To be fair, much of the field in both the men and women 10k's seemed to have rough nights. It was a tad warmer than hoped but that does not really explain it (65F for the last two races). For the Makou group I wonder if they were all coming down with a sickness or perhaps didn't time their travel down from altitude right (I think it helps to be at sea level for several days before racing).

India did a good job pacing the 10 but coming through 3k in 9 flat is her 5k PB pace so it should not have been a real stretch.

Felicia pasadyn ran 32 minutes as a full time Med student who mostly cross trains. The girls should be able to get sub 32 at that level without needing loads of time at altitude. To level up again fair they’ll need it but that’s icing the cake and for the level they should be at the cake isn’t baked.

Beattie and Leonard are developing a weird habit of one being very good and one being abysmal on the same day. Beattie has been the very good one lately, but this has varied in the past.

Cross is just off a 2:10 marathon and will surely move exclusively to the roads soon.

I did make the point in my original post that British distance running is structurally broken.

Investment in facilities is needed and if BA is ever going to be serious about it, buying a training base at altitude would be the way to go. Almost no distance runners are going to reach their full potential without training at altitude for most of the year

As a Brit who coached stateside for a bit then moved back to the UK. I'm astonished by how many young athletes here at the junior level had basic threshold work totally neglected. Three session weeks with every one being hard.

Don't think spaffing a wad of cash up the wall on owning a training centre at altitude is the answer. Logistically so many problems with that. And besides, part of this thread was commenting on Hoka Makou athletes underperforming and they do a whole bunch of altitude camps.

Our talent pool is going to be severely restricted when you have so many club coaches still treating the 5km like it's a slightly longer 1500m.

Leonard now has around 12 DNFs in 4 years - surely Team Makou need to make an episode on this, what is wrong with him???

Beatties has a good run, hes a 13:20~ guy outside of Boston so what more can you expect and Mullarkeys made huge recent progress, great run

The British ladies were dire. Aston useless again. You really do wonder why this group is funded and whats the deal with Hobdell being out on all these trips with them, hes supposed to be a high flying lawyer??? How are these runners being retained when the likes of Leonard and Astin in particular are bang average and easily replaceable with far better runners. Even loud-mouth Elson, his PBs slower than the teams physio FFS!!! They really are stealing a living and still being battered by full-time workers

they stuck the place out. Beattie and Malarky can come back, the rest should be banned

There is no need to own a high altitude camp. The Americans who don't already live at altitude rent flats and townhouses 2-3x a year for a few weeks at a time. I imagine there is a fair bit of kipping with friends on sofas, futons and air mattresses, as well. It's not quite the same setup as "live high, train low," but it is close.

Sarah Astin too. She has got worse since joining that group.