UK Middle distance runners

UK middle/long distance events needs Steve Ovett,Coe,Cram,Bedford,Brend Foster and many others.I learned from them and so to many other Kenyan runners.Why did they stop learning from running world?

Henry

The reason why there has been a decline in British performances in recent years is due to the change in culture. The current generation are brought up in an environment where to be respected you need to drink and go out rather than perform well at sport. At the universitys in England people are encouraged to drink and go out and often this effects the athletes performances. There is no incentive for athletes either, at least if your a top runner in america you get the chance of a decent contract such as alan webb, ritz, or even willis and brannen. There are athletes in the UK currently who match these guys on potential but are only given enough money to get by. Also, the funding available is not distributed effectively. There is decent money to be earnt if your at the top of your game but if your just off the elite level there is no funding whatsoever available. I know people will say money shouldnt matter, but in todays environment it does! Nowadays people have more career orientated goals (which require more effort than in the eighties when there were lots of jobs available, nowadays job seeking is very competitve) and wish to pursue that rather than struggling through, trying to make it as an athlete. I would also add that athletes in the UK do not train as hard as athletes in the 80's did and are often protected in the fear of injuries or getting burnt out!I would say a combination of the points above leads to a negative ideas and disilusions athletes capabilties so they see no incentive to commit further to the sport.

"There are athletes in the UK currently who match these guys on potential.."

I'm not knocking you, but who are the guys who have displayed some potential?

As I suspected. A bunch of wimps who won't make the sacrifices required. No hunger anymore. Bah! I long for the days when you had to run 10 miles just to get to work and then do 16hrs in the pit. That's the kind of work ethic that made Britain 'Great'. Young athletes? A bunch of office-jockies, the lot of them.

athletes such as andy badderly, chris thompson, mo farah, steve vernon, adam bowden, nick mcormick to name a few. There are also many athletes who have or had the potential but have either quit or can't be arsed.

BritZ wrote:

"There are athletes in the UK currently who match these guys on potential.."

I'm not knocking you, but who are the guys who have displayed some potential?

Yeah, who are they? I can't think of a single truly talented UK middle distance runner. Unless, of course, you're referring to me?

Not sure if any of those that you mentioned have the same level of potential as either Webb or Willis. Michael East is by far the best we have, and though the media seem to be in love with pretending that McCormick, Thompson or Farah are better prospects I feel that people are deluding themselves.

East was the commonwealth champ in 2002, and an Olympic sixth placer in 2004. If he is in good shape this summer then he is a genuine medal contender for this years Europeans whereas qualification for the Europeans would be a major achievement for the Brits you mentioned

Culture Shock wrote:

...which require more effort than in the eighties when there were lots of jobs available, nowadays job seeking is very competitve...

You're very young aren't you?

I was trying to find out what the top ten 800 & 1500mtr UK athletes times are but couldn't find that info using google. I wanted to see how they compared to the top times run of all time.

I bet they come nowhere near the top of the list.

"There is no incentive for athletes either, at least if your a top runner in america you get the chance of a decent contract such as alan webb, ritz, or even willis and brannen. There are athletes in the UK currently who match these guys on potential but are only given enough money to get by."

Lets be honest here? Who really has matched the potential of Ritz (Bronze World Jnr XC) and Webb (3:53 mile at 18)? People who you bring up are not whole lot better than 3:53 1500 runners in high school. Running 3:39/13:30s kind of times at 22/23 is hugely impressive but they should be running these kind of times at 19/20. Its a big difference, trust me. Britian has had no one come close to having the potential to come anywhere close to medalling at World Jnr XC. Its a completely different ballgame to Euro Jnrs. The same names have been thrown out for 4-5 years.

Who has the top 10 UK times (still running - not Coe, Cramm, Ovett)? How do they compare to other comparable athletes (Not El Guerrouj, Kipketer etc)?

showing the potential at a young age is the biggest reason why the shoe companies have taken a calculated risk with these athletes. doing world class times at 18,19, and 20 years old gives these athletes a huge upside, compared to those from the UK who are 24 and 25 when they start becoming world class runners.

I was referring to some of the athletes mentioned by Culture Shock. Only Michael East and Jon Brown off the top of my head anyhow.

Look at www.gbrathletics.co.uk for the uk all time lists. Mike East ranks 6th behind the likes of Cram, Coe, Ovett, Elliott and more recently Whiteman and Mayock. I think that if his performances are looked at carefully, you will say that he is world class. He does not attract the media attention of people like McCormick but why who knows??

Cheers. There's some crud on that list.

Why? It is obvious why he attracts attention, something to do with the BBC commentary double act I would have thought and their close links to McCormick. Having said that I think McCormick will run a sub 13.10 5k sooner or later...

There seems to be a lack of interest in distance running in the UK. In the US this problem was recognized and many programs where started to rectify this. Below is a link to the US distance project, which like the Hansons helps develop US talent. I don't know why UK distance runners can't get decent shoe or sports apparel contracts.

It is also strange that Cram and Coe have been relatively silent on the current state of UK distance running. Scott, Spivey, and Short have been up in arms about the decline of US distance running for years. There complaining is finally being heard.

Maybe young UK distance don't know how good Cram, Coe, and Ovett really where. Scott and Spivey sure know how good these guys where.

If Scott beat Coe and Cram went it counted he would be remembered as America's greatest miler instead of that honor going to Jim Ryun. UK milers were so dominating in the early 80's it even influence the direction of Steve Scott's career.

Side Note:

Will Scott's AR in the mile be broken by either Lagat or Webb.

Interesting Mr P. Re Coe and Cram's current 'silence' - re Coe I wonder really how close he is in any detail to the athletes/coaches/system these days,he's clearly got massive other commitments on his plate and I don't see how even he can be an up to the minute expert on everything to do with sport. Kind of amused me last year when he got all mega excited in Helsinki about Casado at 1500 who is flipping good for sure but not - in my view, which sure carries a lot less clout than his - of a different breed from a handful of other Euro guys including a Brit or two.

Cram as Chair of EIS is v much in touch with elite sport albeit across 30 sports. His Guardian columns and BBC website and commentary stuff indicate he keeps pretty well up to speed. Do you think there is anything these guys can add to the debate that hasn't already been suggested by others?

Would be interested to know what sort of funding is put into the USA projects, where it comes from, how much is given per annum per capita to supported runners and what they have to do to sustain the support. Then compare it to whatever the closest system is in UK - would explain I think some of the discrepancies between USA and GB at present.

Also part of the equation I think, the list of NCAA endurance entries, in terms of depth, posted today on Letsrun, is an eye opener.

its not a UK vs US debate!! The US is miles bigger than the US and therefore has more potential to produce good athletes, put that with the scholaships at colleges and you've got a pretty good chance of producing so good athletes. In realtive terms the US is far far worse at producing good athletes! Face it...were both sh@@t at the moment. But the UK has done better in major championsips both in the past and present!