Five of the all-time greats still hold records in their respective events:
Florence Griffith Joyner (100, 200)
Marita Koch (400)
Jarmila Kratochvílová (800)
Junxia Wang (3000)
Jackie Joyner-Kersee (heptathlon)
Why have their records persisted for so long? What do these five supreme athletes have in common that makes it so difficult for modern-era athletes to break their records?
Of the five, I would be inclined to think Kersee would be the most likely to be clean. Other that the long jump, none of her events were excessively great. She was very good in seven events but was nowhere near even medal contention let alone WR level in anything but the LJ. The multis require outstanding athletic ability in a broad range of disciplines but not incredible ability in anything.
Can't say she didn't dope (it was the greatest era of doping in history), but she is my choice of the five for "most likely clean."
Five of the all-time greats still hold records in their respective events:
Florence Griffith Joyner (100, 200)
Marita Koch (400)
Jarmila Kratochvílová (800)
Junxia Wang (3000)
Jackie Joyner-Kersee (heptathlon)
Why have their records persisted for so long? What do these five supreme athletes have in common that makes it so difficult for modern-era athletes to break their records?
Wang has stated she was doped as part of Ma's army.
Koch and Kratochvilova are both included in documents detailing their respective doping protocols (along with their country women.) They both ran their PRs pretty late in their career.
Griffith Joyner took 1986 off from running and returned fully in '88 with a noticeably more muscular frame, dropping her 100m PR by .50 and her 200m PR by .58 at the age of 28.
Joyner-Kersee... seems to have excelled pretty much all throughout her career, both young and mature. She was consistent. Her brother was accused of administering PEDs to his athletes but no reproach or official penalty ever resulted.
Of the five, I would be inclined to think Kersee would be the most likely to be clean. Other that the long jump, none of her events were excessively great. She was very good in seven events but was nowhere near even medal contention let alone WR level in anything but the LJ. The multis require outstanding athletic ability in a broad range of disciplines but not incredible ability in anything.
Can't say she didn't dope (it was the greatest era of doping in history), but she is my choice of the five for "most likely clean."
Look up Dr. Exum who was in charge of USOC testing, and his documentation, interviews, etc. JJK was caught numerous times and let off like Carl Lewis and others. He was also in the film “BIGGER, FASTER, STRONGER”. According to actual drug tests she was as big a fraud as any that ever stepped on the track. And it was all swept under the carpet.
Of the five, I would be inclined to think Kersee would be the most likely to be clean. Other that the long jump, none of her events were excessively great. She was very good in seven events but was nowhere near even medal contention let alone WR level in anything but the LJ. The multis require outstanding athletic ability in a broad range of disciplines but not incredible ability in anything.
Can't say she didn't dope (it was the greatest era of doping in history), but she is my choice of the five for "most likely clean."
Look up Dr. Exum who was in charge of USOC testing, and his documentation, interviews, etc. JJK was caught numerous times and let off like Carl Lewis and others. He was also in the film “BIGGER, FASTER, STRONGER”. According to actual drug tests she was as big a fraud as any that ever stepped on the track. And it was all swept under the carpet.
Wouldn't be surprised at that.
I don't think ANY athlete winning medals during that era could have been clean. None.
The odds were stacked way too hard against them. And the testing was far too rudimentary at the time.
Taking about Flo Jo, I saw her Olympic 100m win on youtube last night, All the heats then the final. She was really something else, in the first heat she breaks the Olympic record with an 10,88. later she lowers that to 10.62, then a 10.54 but windy. She easily wins the final in 10,70. At no time was she ever pressed at all.
First time I ever saw her she was at UCLA running the 400, if into that event she would have been the best at it. Yep faster than 47.60. She had far more speed than Koch.
I don;t usually play this because it sucks but she had to be doing something, she was simply too fast.
But.....her 10.49 was without question windy, hell, ya could see their hair blowing in the wind when down in their blocks.
So two of these all-time greats were coached by the same man. That man is still actively coaching and one of his athletes has performed extremely well. Makes one wonder.
Lax testing - more like zero testing? They didn't test for EPO until 2000 (really only a few distance runners) and 2004 for HGH. That is just assuming individual usage compared to the state sponsored most of these runners were on.
Lax testing - more like zero testing? They didn't test for EPO until 2000 (really only a few distance runners) and 2004 for HGH. That is just assuming individual usage compared to the state sponsored most of these runners were on.
By ‘88 the entire Kenyan distance squad was already on EPO, there was no real test, same for HGH at the time, no test, and Bob Kersee was apparently an “early adopter”. Like someone else pointed out in another thread, look up Dr. Wade Exum, who used to run testing for the USOC. He still has all the test results and copies of letters sent to athletes. Sprinters and jumpers were getting away with astounding levels of drug use, including Carl Lewis, Jackie Joyner-Kersee, and so on. Lewis is the biggest and most hilarious hypocrite, and Griffith likely paid the ultimate price for using early, tainted HGH, even though it’s denied.
Five of the all-time greats still hold records in their respective events:
Florence Griffith Joyner (100, 200)
Marita Koch (400)
Jarmila Kratochvílová (800)
Junxia Wang (3000)
Jackie Joyner-Kersee (heptathlon)
Why have their records persisted for so long? What do these five supreme athletes have in common that makes it so difficult for modern-era athletes to break their records?
Wait until the OP finds out how much harder the women's discus and shot put records are to break. He's going to be really shocked!
I don't think ANY athlete winning medals during that era could have been clean. None.
The odds were stacked way too hard against them. And the testing was far too rudimentary at the time.
+1
I don't think ANY athlete setting world records since that era could have been clean, but, thanks to better yet still poor testing, there may have been a surprise clean global medal winner here or there.
Don't forget about Hicham El Guerrouj. In one of the sport's most competitive marquee events, his 1500 (and mile) record(s) is almost 30 years old, and he still has 6 of the top 10 fastest 1500 times.
Lax testing - more like zero testing? They didn't test for EPO until 2000 (really only a few distance runners) and 2004 for HGH. That is just assuming individual usage compared to the state sponsored most of these runners were on.
By ‘88 the entire Kenyan distance squad was already on EPO, there was no real test, same for HGH at the time, no test, and Bob Kersee was apparently an “early adopter”. Like someone else pointed out in another thread, look up Dr. Wade Exum, who used to run testing for the USOC. He still has all the test results and copies of letters sent to athletes. Sprinters and jumpers were getting away with astounding levels of drug use, including Carl Lewis, Jackie Joyner-Kersee, and so on. Lewis is the biggest and most hilarious hypocrite, and Griffith likely paid the ultimate price for using early, tainted HGH, even though it’s denied.
I remember that!
It was big news when they were finally able to test for EPO, but barely. You had to be taking massive amounts to test positive.
As much as I love all 'greats' from the '70s - early '00s, the fact that they couldn't test for EPO or HGH explains a lot as to why some of those times are unbroken today.
I think super shoes helps level the field today in comparing times. While doping is still obviously happening, you can't get away with pumping huge amounts of EPO or HGH or test and not testing positive.
Taking about Flo Jo, I saw her Olympic 100m win on youtube last night, All the heats then the final. She was really something else, in the first heat she breaks the Olympic record with an 10,88. later she lowers that to 10.62, then a 10.54 but windy. She easily wins the final in 10,70.
Flo-Jo ran 10.70 (+2.6) in the semi-final and 10.54 (+3.0) in the final.
Five of the all-time greats still hold records in their respective events:
Florence Griffith Joyner (100, 200)
Marita Koch (400)
Jarmila Kratochvílová (800)
Junxia Wang (3000)
Jackie Joyner-Kersee (heptathlon)
Why have their records persisted for so long? What do these five supreme athletes have in common that makes it so difficult for modern-era athletes to break their records?
Throw Chebet, Kipyegon, and Tsegay in the same race under good conditions and pacing that 3,000 falls right now.