For track events, it’s how fast you run. For long/triple jumble, it’s how far you jump. For the throws, it’s how far you throw. But for pole vault/high jump, it’s whether you jumped over the bar, not how high you jumped.
What’s the reason for this, besides tradition? Certainly has record progression implications.
Just a guess, but I wonder if it in part could be due to difficulty in precisely measuring height without computers, whereas marks left on the grass or sand make measuring length very easy. Obviously we have the computers today, but for historical reasons I guess we stick with clearing the bar vs. absolute height?
I suspect an athlete's brain needs to see a target in order to maximize the jump. Without a bar, performances could very much decline (if you subscribe to the theory as the brain being the primary driver of performance).
I suspect an athlete's brain needs to see a target in order to maximize the jump. Without a bar, performances could very much decline (if you subscribe to the theory as the brain being the primary driver of performance).
By this logic, can we improve LJ/TJ performance by adding a bar/tape at the top marks?
I suspect an athlete's brain needs to see a target in order to maximize the jump. Without a bar, performances could very much decline (if you subscribe to the theory as the brain being the primary driver of performance).
By this logic, can we improve LJ/TJ performance by adding a bar/tape at the top marks?
Same reason we measure long/triple from the board and not the take off point. Same reason throws are measured from the circle not the release point. With the high/vault we also get the fudge factor of brushing the bar but it staying on. Technically Mondo wouldn’t have had a WR last night as he abused the bar on his way over.
For track events, it’s how fast you run. For long/triple jumble, it’s how far you jump. For the throws, it’s how far you throw. But for pole vault/high jump, it’s whether you jumped over the bar, not how high you jumped.
What’s the reason for this, besides tradition? Certainly has record progression implications.
If I had infinite money and was bored, I’d design a ‘sand’ based solution where there’s a ~2-3ft ‘sand’ wall from like 5.5-6.5 meters high. They jump over and height is measured from the lowest untouched part of the barrier.
obviously, there are some tiny issues to work out, but I think this would get to your intention while giving the athletes a physical barrier to use.
(ps, I know a like holographic barrier with laser measurement would probably be simpler and more accurate even, but my method feels more authentic.
Same reason "reaction time" off the gun is a thing instead of just doing a countdown to minimize it and judge the competition based on actual running speed.
It's a holdover relic from a time when the technology didn't exist to do it better.
If I had infinite money and was bored, I’d design a ‘sand’ based solution where there’s a ~2-3ft ‘sand’ wall from like 5.5-6.5 meters high. They jump over and height is measured from the lowest untouched part of the barrier.
obviously, there are some tiny issues to work out, but I think this would get to your intention while giving the athletes a physical barrier to use.
(ps, I know a like holographic barrier with laser measurement would probably be simpler and more accurate even, but my method feels more authentic.
I love this. You could use that kinetic sand that sticks together! After every jump, a machine goes up like a vertical Zamboni and sets up a fresh wall of kinetic sand. Think about how aesthetically satisfying it would be to see the new wall go up. It would be the #1 background content for all these TikTok brainrotters.
because it's not how high can a part of you reach, but rather how high can all of you clear.
i would think that requiring all of you makes it over would be safer than some max height contest that might encourage recklessness to extend something, however awkwardly or unlandable, skyward. ever watch max vert skateboarding?
the guy who mentioned a sand barrier, the idea is to cushion the landing of a sport with some danger, not to create an unforgiving obstacle where you land back on hard ground or in a pit, perhaps headfirst. old school HJ/PV used to be into sand. and you get lower clearances if you have to land on your feet or come down in sand and feel good after.
this is kind of like some people have tried a forward flip LJ. and you'd probably bady hurt or paralyze x% of kids or older jumpers doing that. as it is folks get nasty injuries sometimes doing it the right way and having an accident or veering to the side of the pit on landing.
btw, be glad that the world moved on to fiberglass and foam and that you are no longer landing misses on top of a metal bar that hits your back, side, or belly. that hurt.
This got me thinking about the reverse scenario question. Why don't we have targets for the other field events? What if you had to clear successively larger chasms (ok we'd still use a sand pit) for long jump or throw over successively further lines for shot put? I think Crouser put on an event earlier this year that did just that for shot. I think it could be a cool format change and it would be interesting to see if and how performance was affected.
the guy who mentioned a sand barrier, the idea is to cushion the landing of a sport with some danger, not to create an unforgiving obstacle where you land back on hard ground or in a pit, perhaps headfirst. old school HJ/PV used to be into sand. and you get lower clearances if you have to land on your feet or come down in sand and feel good after.
You are completely misunderstanding my suggestion.
Everything would be essentially the same, same form, same soft padded landing, but instead of having a single bar to clear or not clear, you have a permeable barrier where the lowest part you cleared could be measured based on where you passed through. Mondo would maybe on a perfect vault have the lowest intact portion be at 6.33 so that’d be his mark, some machine would repack the ~1 meter by 2cm sand wall and raise it for the next competitor. If you have a bad jump and knock it all down, that’d just be a bad jump.
Like I said, it could all be done with lasers, but I think my way would be more fun.
(as a probably easier logistically solution, have a series of ~100 1 cm pieces of styrofoam stacked up and measure the lowest unbroken layer.)
Like I said, if I had unlimited money I’d do it, but I don’t, so I’m throwing it out there for the masses of letsrun who seem to all be sitting on $10 mill in savings and $5-600k per year base salaries.
This got me thinking about the reverse scenario question. Why don't we have targets for the other field events? What if you had to clear successively larger chasms (ok we'd still use a sand pit) for long jump or throw over successively further lines for shot put? I think Crouser put on an event earlier this year that did just that for shot. I think it could be a cool format change and it would be interesting to see if and how performance was affected.
I also would have ‘target’ throwing events… back to the original purpose. Great if you can throw the shot 22 meters. Better if you can hit a dummy in the head from ~18-20 meters. I’d love to see them tossing discus trying to knock soldiers off a castle wall or something.
Field events have so much potential to be awesome, but honestly they’re kind of boring and predictable. Even making them throw progressively further would be an improvement or at least something different.
You are completely misunderstanding my suggestion.
Everything would be essentially the same, same form, same soft padded landing, but instead of having a single bar to clear or not clear, you have a permeable barrier where the lowest part you cleared could be measured based on where you passed through. Mondo would maybe on a perfect vault have the lowest intact portion be at 6.33 so that’d be his mark, some machine would repack the ~1 meter by 2cm sand wall and raise it for the next competitor. If you have a bad jump and knock it all down, that’d just be a bad jump.
Like I said, it could all be done with lasers, but I think my way would be more fun.
(as a probably easier logistically solution, have a series of ~100 1 cm pieces of styrofoam stacked up and measure the lowest unbroken layer.)
Like I said, if I had unlimited money I’d do it, but I don’t, so I’m throwing it out there for the masses of letsrun who seem to all be sitting on $10 mill in savings and $5-600k per year base salaries.
Except that feet and arms often break the plane under the bar in high jump. Knocking down your sandcastle. Athletes might be forced to go back to the western roll.
What if the LJ comoetition was modeled after the HJ and PV?
Start with a line at 8m and keep moving it out as jumpers drop off until one athlete is left. Would this make the event more or less interesting from a fan standpoint?
You are completely misunderstanding my suggestion.
Everything would be essentially the same, same form, same soft padded landing, but instead of having a single bar to clear or not clear, you have a permeable barrier where the lowest part you cleared could be measured based on where you passed through. Mondo would maybe on a perfect vault have the lowest intact portion be at 6.33 so that’d be his mark, some machine would repack the ~1 meter by 2cm sand wall and raise it for the next competitor. If you have a bad jump and knock it all down, that’d just be a bad jump.
Like I said, it could all be done with lasers, but I think my way would be more fun.
(as a probably easier logistically solution, have a series of ~100 1 cm pieces of styrofoam stacked up and measure the lowest unbroken layer.)
Like I said, if I had unlimited money I’d do it, but I don’t, so I’m throwing it out there for the masses of letsrun who seem to all be sitting on $10 mill in savings and $5-600k per year base salaries.
Except that feet and arms often break the plane under the bar in high jump. Knocking down your sandcastle. Athletes might be forced to go back to the western roll.
Well if you had a series of styrofoam pieces, you just mark at the highest unbroken one the cleared. Doesn’t matter about the ones beneath it. Not saying it’s perfected yet, but I’m more of a solution guy than a complain and come up with reasons why not kind of guy.