Jack Daniels has ruined thousands of hobbyjoggers

Sorry about your hip. Shouldn’t have done that 9th interval the last Thursday in June. You body was telling you - and you know it.

I like to drink straight shots of it before I do intervals.

people need to be aware of their own bodies.

people need to follow the plans based on their current fitness.

if people can't handle the plans, they shouldn't be doing them.

understand that jack gives guidance on percent of mileage that should be done at a given pace. Most people will be fine if they are doing appropriate mileage, running at current race pace, and following those percentages.

Then you are basically saying mike Smith ruins every runner he touches. Thats his protégé.

The smith/daniels method is the onky one out that INCORPORATES all phases of training, without putting too much emphasis on any 1 phase.

No. Any "problem" with Daniels comes from people thinking they are faster or more advanced than they actually are. Daniels is modifable to one's level, but most people want to just follow a schedule - a schedule based on their best day, not day to day.

That’s why cheap whiskey is ill advised.

You aren't wrong, but one thing jack did not do with his runners that Smith is experimenting with is doing cooldowns at T-PACE. Smith started trying around with this 2 years ago, and I definately dont agree with it or understand it. I would NEVER have my college kids doing cooldowns that fast.

Anyone want to speculate or elaborate on why Smith is wanting to push the pace on cool downs? I dont think k it serves any cardiological benefits.

Blaming you sore hip and knee replacements on training method is a real Dave move.

Don't be a Dave.

Most of the hobby joggers I know just want to follow a plan from a book without trying to understand why they are doing a certain workout on a given day. This leads to injury and burnout. Ultimately, the goal is to customize your workouts and learn what works best for you. Training Plans from a book are written for the masses. Everyone is different.

didn't know he did this, and don't understand it. if you're trying to tack extra T pace onto a day of work, fine. but that's not a cool down (or warm down if you prefer that language), right?

I read through most of one of his classic books, and never really tried it, but... from my recollection he repeatedly stated that the pace charts were just a guide, and athletes should slow down/shorten/modify if not totally feeling good. So I think the problem is with readers who ignore that advice to fixate on the charts. Even if the chart paces are too fast -- he basically told everyone to train not strain.

Last 4 years (starting at age 44) Ive used a 20 week JD cycle for my races. My worst race was a 80 min half where I placed 10th /1300. With the exception of this race I finished 5-8 secs per mile faster than I wrote my workout cycle for.

May not work out for everyone, but JD really worked out well for me. As others have pointed out - KNOW your body. If you need an easy day instead of a workout take the easy day.

*Coincidentally the other aforementioned JD worked out too good for me and landed me a few days in the hospital and years in AA.

Any plan can get the wrong plan if you don't know what you are doing.

Agree his training is too intense but the impact he has had on running in general cannot be overstated.

The problem with Daniels is that it tries to give you a little bit of everything. He missed the mark on the primacy of threshold or sub-t training. Wish I would have picked up Baaken’s writings instead of JD’s book in the early 2000s.

I agree that the way people read JD has been detrimental to countless of hobbyists but thats due to, as many have pointed out in this thread, them not understanding the plans and workouts and overestimating their paces and volume tolerance. I certainly have fallen into that trap and I very much try to understand to the best of my ability. Hubris and wishful thinking however is hard to get rid off. The main problem with JD is that he is an academic writing for the masses but the masses are stupid and will get things wrong if they are not extremely dumbed down and simple. You cant really fault JD for making knowledge available even if the regular hobby jogging Dave misinterpret the knowledge ad gets hurt. On the other hand you cant fault Dave for being stupid either. As we all know, stupidity and hubris has no cure.

I was a high 14s 5k guy in college. I've been training more or less continuously in the 35-45 mpw range since then, largely following Daniels' plans. At 46 I'm running about 45mpw plus a long mountain bike ride on weekends, and I'm running 16:30s 5ks these days. I'm still basically on a Daniels plan with a little more focus on threshold work. I don't try to hammer workouts, just get out and try to put in the miles consistently.

Never tried the whisky

There is some truth to the OP's statement, but it's not JD so much it's the runners who follow his guides like the fundamentalists follow the bible. His easy paces are too fast for most. Ease up, and take recovery days really easy. Too much V02 max. This was written in the 90s when improving V02 max was seen as the holy grail. Now we know otherwise. Modify that some with threshold or something between threshold and V02 max. You can make modifications.