Williams, Swarthmore others?

Sorry schools looking at at Williams, Swarthmore and Haverford

The best way to figure out is by sending those coaches an email. I wouldn’t trust what anyone has to say on here. Good luck!

"walk on at"

Are you sure you're the college type?

Wesleyan U

your times are d3. in d3 there are no walkons, no one is on scholarship. the big first hurdle is admissions. a rare few athletes might get special admissions help for being good for the level. but most people are on their own to get admitted. you either fit the admissions profile or not. you don't tell us scores. to be clear, if coaches have admissions pull, and it varies, it's not for the 445 kid. you're on your own for admissions.

the second hurdle is some d3s have roster limits and some do not. some schools run like baby d1s and there are a finite amount of running slots and you have to be recruited to them ahead of time.

with your times, you are a non-roster limits d3 kid. maybe you could try some roster limits teams and see but you'd be iffy. if you want to run, you need to research (look up team rosters on their website and meet results on TFRRS) and parse out which programs are roster limits and which are not. my sense, UAA, hopkins, w&l, and the top nescacs are roster limits. the claremonts (pomona and mckenna), swat, haverford, grinnell, some of the weaker nescacs, no limits or at least none that affect you. each of those will have some kids over 5.

if you do your research there are actually some good no limits schools.

the hard parts are admissions and then if you go to one of the roster limits schools. if you pursue the non roster limits schools it's do you get in or not. that's it.

for your purposes, williams is a limits school; swat and haverford are not.

and then the hurdle beyond that is making the conference and regionals travel teams, and trying to become competitive. there are some conferences with entry limits for cross/track or qualifying times for track. if your goal is to run conference you might figure out what is what.

last thought, you mention just 3 schools, they all have low admissions rates, and you're not telling us scores. be sure you fit the admissions profiles because you aren't getting any help as a recruit. i would pursue a couple dozen schools -- and make a lot of them good if you want -- because some are going to tell you "no" and you want options.

Good answer. Here’s a bit more clarification on NESCAC roster limits and coaches’ pull with admissions. As long as you are a varsity type high school runner (e.g. sub 4:50 mile) you can run on the team. You’ll typically just have to do the time trial at the beginning of the season for non-recruited athletes.

Coaches do have pull with admissions for fast people (sub 4:20 mile types), but for limited slots, and you have to be the type of student who would get admission on your own. It’s similar to the Ivies, but with a bit higher academic standard to meet and less slots.

I wouldn’t worry about sending emails to coaches now with your times. You might not get responses because coaches are busy and get a lot of emails, but that doesn’t mean you couldn’t run on the team. After you get acceptances and are deciding where to go, then you can make a concerted effort to get in touch with the coaches of those schools.

Your times do not indicate you'd be competitive on a roster. Look at a school you'd actually want to go to for their majors and the opportunities post graduation.

You'll be great at the marathon in a few years.

Yes. Think about your personality and what kind of environment will suit you. If you really feel as though you’ll definitely benefit from running on a team, then make sure there’s a decent coach and a good team culture, but still with all of that taking a backseat to academics and the overall comfort you have with a school. You’ll probably wind up happier with both your running and other aspects of your life pretty soon and extending years down the line because of it.

If you get down to a 4:40 you could look at some Patriot League schools which are D1. You'd be more looking at walking on to the team, and for track. My friend at one of these schools was literally doing strides on the field his freshman year and the track coach asked him if he wanted to join the team (won't happen for cross country tho). Definitely could try emailing the coaches asking about potential walk on/tryouts and what kind of times they're looking for.

In D1, the objective is to get a scholarship. In D3, the objective is to get one of the coach's limited admissions preference slots. In both cases there may be opportunities to be admitted through normal means, then walk on as an already-admitted student (who has their financial needs covered elsewhere). Although that might change at D1 with the new roster limits?

Your current times won't get you a Williams coach's admission slot. I don't know about Swarthmore. But your times may be of interest for other D3 schools. As was said earlier, start sending emails out to coaches to gauge interest. And simultaneously consider how your academics match the school's admission standards.

To see how your times look for different colleges, check out Runcruit. Crude, but it's a reasonable sense of the times needed for each school.

FYI: Swarthmore is in a nice neighborhood near Philadelphia,
but parts of the campus are decrepit. Crumbling walls in buildings and very
unattractive dorm spaces. Choose carefully.

They have a $2.7 billion endowment. I think they are just fine

i agree with the "gestalt" type arguments re d3. at the non-scholarship level they aren't paying for your school, you are. and there's not the I Made the Big Leagues aspect -- except for elite admissions perhaps. the schools vary in quality, extent of offerings, whether they have your major, how they do the calendar/terms, size, location, pleasantness and affordability of the campus and town, prestige, admissions rates, etc. some teams travel more, some stay in-state or -region until postseason, some schools have more natural travel built into their conference. coaching ideas and quality vary, the coach can be nice or a jerk.

go visit some schools and start getting a feel for what you might want. it doesn't even have to be ones you really want to attend. anything you visit will start giving you positive and negative ideas. "compared to this" i want it big/medium/small/city/suburb/rural/mountain/coastal/hot/mild/cold/prestige/fun/university-style/liberal arts/arts school/engineering school/calm/lively/frats/no greeks/etc. do your research, do they have your major, do they have proper facilities. that and they will probably vary on cost and financial aid.

that part sounds like platitudes but like the poster said, the more personal boxes the school ticks off the better, and few of those should be sports.

visit the final few schools you consider, make sure the school seems cool, the kids are happy, and the coach isn't a twerp.

"They have a $2.7 billion endowment . . ."

Yes, which makes the crumbling infrastructure even
more of a disappointment.

Both Williams and Swarthmore are niche schools known for their academics. That said, if you didn't know better, and walked through the Williams campus, you would think it was an unknown school struggling to stay afloat. This despite having an endowment larger than most state university systems. Depending on what high school you went to, the facilities could be a step down. The coach's offices are located on the top of a yoga studio and look as though they were remodeled in 1978. Honestly, its a bit of mystery and an embarrassment for a school of this stature/prestige. Shabby chic or New England puritanical culture, who knows, but it is what it is. Let's just say it does not give off a vibe that is supportive of sports.

My sense is that with the changing landscape (roster limits etc) there is a real opportunity for some D3's to step up and be supportive of sports, compete with nice facilities and other attibributes. Just not sure that is present in NESCAC at the moment. Carleton College or others may do a better job of offering the complete package, but I could be wrong on that. Others may know of academic D3's that offer the full package.

Thanks for all the great replies. Appreciate it! Have visited all three schools and really liked all three academic wise. From an academic standpoint, have a 4.0 UW gpa abd 1570/36 sat/act. academics clearly first for me.

Appreciate the thoughts on limits/no limits rosters. Do the Claremont schools have no limits rosters?

Thanks all!

Look at tfrrs, it’s easy to find a list of performances by event, you’ll see all of the athletes who ran 15 or steeple, 5k, 10k, etc.

Claremont colleges are great. Weather, facilities, academics, campus, and CMS has great coaching (maybe PP does too but Idk who is coaching currently).

Just to mention a few that I think you have a reasonable shot at which haven't been brought up yet: Vassar, Hamilton, Colby, Bowdoin, Bates, Colorado College.

I am pretty confident Vassar and Hamilton would be a good fit especially, with your academics, with need-blind admissions and good financial aid, programs that are serious and Vassar even occasionally going to nationals, but big rosters with plenty of "slower" kids shows the coaches are willing to develop athletes like you. And coaches have very good reputations as far as I remember from talking to their athletes a few years back.

Williams has outstanding facilities, apart from the coaches' offices, and the campus is among the most beautiful in the country. The setting is picture postcard like, set deep in the mountains with trails all around. The old indoor track facility is being demolished because of structural issues and a temporary facility is going up. But in general this is a very successful program that competes for national championships in xc on both the men and the women's sides and sometimes wins, while they get numerous all-Americans in track and sometimes individual national champions. Overall, Williams athletics has won the D3 and all-division Sears and other cups the vast majority of years the awards have been given for all college sports combined.