I have been looking at Washington and Lee, Davidson, and William and Mary, as well as some others. I was thinking 1530-45 range for XC should put me in a good position (lower end for w and m, higher for Davidson, probably even higher for w and l).
I’m also concerned about my admissibility and whether my acedemics are good enough (4.2 weighted, 1430 sat)
I have been looking at Washington and Lee, Davidson, and William and Mary, as well as some others. I was thinking 1530-45 range for XC should put me in a good position (lower end for w and m, higher for Davidson, probably even higher for w and l).
I’m also concerned about my admissibility and whether my acedemics are good enough (4.2 weighted, 1430 sat)
Your academics are fine. Time means nothing in xc. How you place at your State meet, nxr, fl matters much more. Your track times from 400-3200 as well.
If you happen to be good, you should investigate some Ivies and other top schools. Generally, no scholarship, but coaches can get you preferred admission. Your scores plus running are pretty good.
first off, if you have a brain you start off from safe schools and work your way out. you start with schools you have the times and scores for. you then move the target as your times or academics improve. maybe mix in some aspirational but the good way to get stuck with no good choices is go all aspirational, zero safe, then something happens to your season, or you assume too much improvement.
second, w&l is D3, the other 2 are D1.
third, w&l gives off an unusual vibe for a D3, more like a D1. you look at their race results and it's a limited amount of runners finishing high with good times for a D3. if a slow guy sees a meet he maybe still breaks 30. they are not a "takes everyone" XC team, my guess is either they cut people or they don't travel roster the slower ones. so it's unusual roster pressure for a D3.
the closest approximation is most men's college teams run a 6k first meet. last year w&l's slowest 6k kid was 20:52, roughly a 17-18 5k pace. you oddly don't give a current 5k time but instead start talking aspirational times. coaches don't recruit aspirational or everyone would bs them. they recruit real times which are now verifiable online. w&l's coach doesn't want to hear you think 15:30 he wants to hear you know 17 last year. and without the real times it's hard to steer you right.
the other trick to use is look up w&l's roster, particularly the ones seeking meets, then look up their HS times.
Keep in mind schools are going to 17 person roster limits for cross country starting next year. Academics look good based on what you sent. Cross times are OK to look at but coaches look more at cross *performances* (state meet, big races). Times only matter on the track, and for the 3200 I would guess 9:15-9:20. Keyword there is guess though, no harm in reaching out to the coaches to
1. express your interest in the school
2. ask about what the requirements are time wise.
, as whatever the guys on the team ran in hs is a fairly irrelevant stat to look at because no one knows their specific circumstances.
Ivies in general seem to be a tough nut to crack as of late. One of my athletes last year had low 9:0x, high placements in meets and 1500 + SAT and was not getting responses. You should have much better luck at the high academic d3s.
the explicit NCAA limit is a D1 thing as they deal with the compensation lawsuits. d3 is set up as nonscholarship so i don't know if they ever have the same rule.
anyway, some D3 have a cut, some take anyone who wants to run. that distinction doesn't necessarily correlate to quality. we played the claremont schools, and pomona pitzer won d3 (whooped your w&l) and they always had big rosters, and don't look like they cut anyone now, 20+ kids finished at conference, including over 30 min for 8k.
there are better d3s than w&l with better academics who finish ahead of it at nationals -- and you don't worry about "making the team," just being top 7/10 to do the NCAA progression meets. there are even some better mid-atlantic or new england schools in d3, if you are trying to stay east coast. w&l looks to me like they keep right about 20 and no one else.
as all are saying, x time means nothing in a vacuum. Ivies were difficult last year, and will need 4:05 / 8:45 for top ivies, 4:07 / 8:55 for mid tier and 4:10-12 / 9:00 for bottom ivies. Davidson W&M and majority of Patriot league similar to bottom ivies. Colleges usually recruit off 1600 and 3200 since nothing longer in track at that level - with one caveat - top 10 and legitimate state meets (t25 Ca Utah )
x meets meant to end last comment with - and to coach above with kid who had 1500 and no ivy looks, what league did kid land at (won’t ask school). But seems sub 9 is the price of entry
I have been looking at Washington and Lee, Davidson, and William and Mary, as well as some others. I was thinking 1530-45 range for XC should put me in a good position (lower end for w and m, higher for Davidson, probably even higher for w and l).
I’m also concerned about my admissibility and whether my acedemics are good enough (4.2 weighted, 1430 sat)
You should consider adding Sewanee to your list. They are comparable to the schools above for academics. They recently hired Mike Curcio, long-time coach at App State. He knows what he is doing.
For track times, W&M is probably 4:20/9:25 as a junior, Davidson a few seconds slower, and W&L 5 seconds slower than Davidson. Interesting that despite being the best one, W&M has the most people on the roster, while W&L has a tight roster for a good D3, and Davidson has had a tight roster in general. The only way XC is relevant is if you show significant improvement year-over-year in times or beat some people with impressive 3200 times. Academics are fine, but reach out to the coaches (the sooner the better, with the D1 schools you're going to want to know by late fall if you're going there or not).
I have been looking at Washington and Lee, Davidson, and William and Mary, as well as some others. I was thinking 1530-45 range for XC should put me in a good position (lower end for w and m, higher for Davidson, probably even higher for w and l).
I’m also concerned about my admissibility and whether my acedemics are good enough (4.2 weighted, 1430 sat)
You should consider adding Sewanee to your list. They are comparable to the schools above for academics. They recently hired Mike Curcio, long-time coach at App State. He knows what he is doing.
i usually suggest nescac/uaa/sciac. the first 2 are mostly east coast though UAA is the only one a little "southern" (emory) if the OP is insisting.
the SAA is a notch below w&l to me, and centre and rhodes are better at both running sports in that conference plus i think trinity (san antonio) is about to change conferences to SAA.
maybe the new south coach helps but since he's hired this year you can wait and see.
Good questions. At the moment, you are not a burner and you are forced to focus on “minimum” times necessary. Change the equation and you will then be able to change the options.
Look at your training and come up with a 3 year plan to develop as an athlete. You don’t need a team to develop to 14:45 in the 5K (although you will likely be on a team).
If you are not already, quickly get yourself to 50 miles per week as a MINIMUM standard. Grow it to 60-70 next summer, then 75-85 by 2026… minimum weekly mileage. Do quality workouts that you can easily find online. You will change the equation AND your options. It does NOT have to be about your 1st year of college eligibility. It’s about your work ethic, training plan, and basic intelligence. Good luck.
Ivies in general seem to be a tough nut to crack as of late. One of my athletes last year had low 9:0x, high placements in meets and 1500 + SAT and was not getting responses. You should have much better luck at the high academic d3s.
That's interesting because I just had a couple kids go to Ivies and one of them was similar to your guy (although he got into the 8:50s outdoor senior year but that was after committing), he did get to Foot Locker though. The other was actually behind that and got there with a 4:12 as a junior and a 34 ACT.
The first kid went to a top 2 Ivy for running by the way so it's not like it was two kids going to Brown.
x meets meant to end last comment with - and to coach above with kid who had 1500 and no ivy looks, what league did kid land at (won’t ask school). But seems sub 9 is the price of entry
to add to my previous post, centennial conference (swat, hopkins, haverford, f&m, dickinson).
i agree with nescac. also some sciac (oxy P-P CMS).
to clarify my point on w&l, i wouldn't "rule it out," but it's unusual for a d3 with a small roster, a seeming cut, and fast times. if you come out right side of that cut, who cares, but if the idea is like, if D1 doesn't happen, i wanna run, w&l is not much easier a "get."
there are teams like pomona that are as good or better at nationals but behave more like d3s in terms of roster security. ie they beat w&l but are lenient with bigger rosters where you don't spend your first weeks there in utter fear you picked the place only to get cut from the team before classes start.
so i'd have some other d3 options where it's more obvious you make the team. if w&l works out, good. if not, you have another good academic where they actually want you to run.
Why are you asking the fools in this forum? Nothing but haters and phonies for the most part.
Reachout to the coaches at the schools you wish to go to, provide your times to the coach, see what they say. Make them tell you no, or in reality just ignore you, which many will do even if they want you. Stay persistent, but respectful until they flat say no. The cross them off our list. Look around social media with all the persons committing to schools, look the athletes PR's up, many are well above what persons would expect, but they still got a offer from a school. Sure maybe lunch money only, or maybe substantially more, you neber know if you do not try.
interesting to look at this question now after house settlement. Anecdotally I’ve heard that 9:00-9:10 kids are finding more interest from top D3 schools as opposed to Ivies etx. Anyone going thru the process care to share thoughts?