So is Cole Hocker only a 3:31 without super shoes?

"Only a 3:31"...you say that as if running 3:31 is a slouch time.

We talking about 3:27 vs 3:31

False. Supershoes for a men’s 1500 with a 55-56s pace are probably worth somewhere between .5-1s. Jakob ran 3:31.1 at age 17 with old spikes. He was not a sub-3:29 guy then.

Are we really back to the 4s/mile claims again? When was the last time a 3:31 guy won the Olympics? I see Cacho in 92 only had a 3:32 pb when he won gold, but he ended up as a 3:28 guy. Rono in 88 apparently had a 3:35 pb when he won. If every Olympic champ for nearly 40 years has been significantly better than 3:31 (except for Centro's 3:30 lol), why would we expect Hocker to be the worst by a large margin?

I think 2s for supershoes at that level is probably too much, but even if he ran 2s slower without supershoes, Hocker would've still been comfortably under 3:30.

3.31 without the shoes and another form of assistance.

If you think Cole is only a 3:31 guy that means a 3:31 guy was more clutch than Webb at any global final ever

guess times don’t matter in a championship race

Exactly

1 sec per lap is too much at the elite pro level. It more applies the longer the race and the less efficient the athlete, so think high school.

But, I would still believe two seconds for the 1500 for top tier Olympians. Does that mean Hocker, a 3:29 guy, out kicked a couple other 3:29 guys and outlasted a gassed 3:27-28 guy who stupidly went out too fast and pace-setted for 1400 meters? Yes, totally believable and plausible.

Rojo digging deep to get some clicks/posts on this dump after the Olympics

Btw, 3:29 on the nose is *roughly* equivalent to a 3:45-high full mile. So three Olympic medalists can all run in the 3:45s before the shoes, while one guy can normally run 3:44 in the perfect race. Think about how fast we would’ve said that is a mere five years ago.

I dislike the fact that supershoes messed up the times as much as the next guy but I accept Hocker is a 3:27 guy. Particularly when you consider the fact that the previous generation of 3:26/27 guys were juiced to the gills

I mean did these very Olympics not dispel some of emotionally driven myth and legend of the "superspike"?

By eliminating the time "q" and essentially removing the incentive to push the pace in most MD races, we sort of reverted back to the way races were run in the 90's, 00's with everyone backing their finishing speed - even at their own detriment. Honestly it was cool to see a few of 1500m races out in 2min + through 800m again in the heats. And even those races out in 1.57 (one of the heats and one of the semis) are by today standards "slow".

Yet none of the performances off those paces were not in line with what we have seen historically. Super spikes didn't seem to help athletes close in 38 seconds instead of 39-40. So the contention is that these products work in overall fast races, just not in slow ones then right? Or do they just help guys run 56's instead of 57's but not when it comes to anything faster? The rationale doesn't seem to line up.

Well, we have to accept it now, and, I agree the pervious generation was doped. The 3:26s of that area were ridiculous.

Three 3:29 guys and a 3:28 guy in the Olympic final, assuming they are all clean, is still quite incredible. Would be the fastest, cleanest final ever.

So what am I saying? Jim Ryun is 0.5 sec per lap faster with modern tracks/pacing and then another 0.5 sec per lap with the shoes? So really a 3:29.1 guy? Yes, I’m saying precisely that.

theguardian.com

Super spikes are causing a seismic shift – so why won't athletes admit it? | Sean Ingle

https://www.theguardian.com/profile/seaningle

Records are being smashed but the runners involved are reluctant to admit the difference the new technology is making

Link:www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2021/fe...

Willis may not be saying 2.5 sec per 1500 for each and every single runner, but I’m going to tend to believe a multiple times Olympic medalist and another 3:29 guy that the shoes provide an edge. Because they do. It’s just impossible to quantify how much the edge is for any given athlete. But it’s painfully obvious if you watch high school track.

So El G was a 3:22 runner in the new shoes?

Not to belabor this, and I will stop posting on this thread now, because we will just have to agree to disagree… but, pretend it’s 2016 and someone predicts that the medalists in the Olympic final in eight short years will be three guys who have to run 3:44 mile equivalents in the race, followed by a guy who is capable of 3:43:00 normally but who fades after naively pacesetting the entire race. Because that’s what we just saw…

3:24ish. Potentially not clean and now getting a mechanical edge? Not so crazy.

Also if this hypothetical occurred and he was tested he would get banned.

3:25x.