Let's go, 100m Olympic champion!
Lyles is ready to break the 200m WR now.
Sprinting Discussion
Sprints
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Not really. Bolt was also a terrific second 50m guy in the 100m. Bolt's top end speed was second to none (including prime Lyles).
If Lyles has the start of his life, maybe he beats that record, but only barely. Bolt and Lyles have the same slow start from the blocks, but Bolt could accelerate to 9.58. Lyles, not so much.
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19.15 wrote:
Not really. Bolt was also a terrific second 50m guy in the 100m. Bolt's top end speed was second to none (including prime Lyles).
If Lyles has the start of his life, maybe he beats that record, but only barely. Bolt and Lyles have the same slow start from the blocks, but Bolt could accelerate to 9.58. Lyles, not so much.
Bolt ran a faster 60m than the 60m WR en route to his 100m WR.
This post was edited 5 minutes after it was posted.214 -
Curious_Cat wrote:
Let's go, 100m Olympic champion!
No 200m WR.
He might get lucky and break 19.3.
We're in a post-Bolt era so we'd better get used to the slower times.
Doesn't mean in can't be exciting.
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Curious_Cat wrote:
19.15 wrote:
Not really. Bolt was also a terrific second 50m guy in the 100m. Bolt's top end speed was second to none (including prime Lyles).
If Lyles has the start of his life, maybe he beats that record, but only barely. Bolt and Lyles have the same slow start from the blocks, but Bolt could accelerate to 9.58. Lyles, not so much.
Bolt ran a faster 60m than the 60m WR en route to his 100m WR.
Jamin\'sHSClassmate wrote:
matt_london_413 wrote:
Track and field is a sport between point A and point B.
Just like my 200 thread where I talked about how Yohan Blake owns the record based on his reaction time which would have made it a 19.13.
This is the same situation. The fastest 60 meter dash ever run from point A to point B is 6.29 by Usain Bolt during his 9.58 run.
Bottomline is until Coleman can beat that then he doesn't own the record.
6.29 is measured by using cameras from the level of the press box and going frame by frame to judge as accurately as possible. It was not doing with FAT, it's not even close to the rigor of an official time.
Also, the IAAF rules clearly state that 60m is only an indoor event for record purposes. If you feel better about it, say CC has the 60m indoor WR and that no outdoor 60m wr exists. Even if FAT had been set up on the track to measure his 60m split in the 100m, it would be as valid to call it the record as if he ran a 19.19 on and indoor 400m track and calling that the indoor 200m WR. These records have rules to be called a WR, and the 60m WR has the rule it must be set indoors.012 -
19.15 wrote:
Not really. Bolt was also a terrific second 50m guy in the 100m. Bolt's top end speed was second to none (including prime Lyles).
If Lyles has the start of his life, maybe he beats that record, but only barely. Bolt and Lyles have the same slow start from the blocks, but Bolt could accelerate to 9.58. Lyles, not so much.
Most of what you said is off the mark, even when you're close to correct. Bolt WAS a bad starter, but that's a contextual statement. bolt ran a 6.36 60m split in his 9.58, if memory serves. He was typically in the mix after 40 meters, and probably in the leads by 70 meters. His start in comparison to his finish was, indeed, awful. Plus, if the wheels were at riak of falling off for himn(Bolt), it was in the first half of the race.
Lyles, on the other hand, is legitimately bad in relation to his peers. But again, context is needed. He was the worst starter in that final and it showed...but that's still LEAPS and BOUNDS (pun?) from where he was in 2021 and prior to. He is at least now able to stay in contact to allow his final 40 to get him a win like today...but in comparison to Bolts start it isn't even close, Bolt was a much better and dynamic runner out of the blocks.
Having said all that, the OLYMPICS record should certainly be in play, perhaps almost easily by Lyles. That record is still only 19.30, and Lyles was able to run 19.31 already before his stint of 100m success. The WR, though....maybe not. For him to have a shot at the WR, I think he'd have to try to get it at his peak when not running rounds....and even then it'd be a tight squeeze to get it at all.
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Curious_Cat wrote:
Let's go, 100m Olympic champion!
He can't. He needs to be around 10.65 to challenge that.
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ThreadMurder wrote:
19.15 wrote:
Not really. Bolt was also a terrific second 50m guy in the 100m. Bolt's top end speed was second to none (including prime Lyles).
If Lyles has the start of his life, maybe he beats that record, but only barely. Bolt and Lyles have the same slow start from the blocks, but Bolt could accelerate to 9.58. Lyles, not so much.
Most of what you said is off the mark, even when you're close to correct. Bolt WAS a bad starter, but that's a contextual statement. bolt ran a 6.36 60m split in his 9.58, if memory serves. He was typically in the mix after 40 meters, and probably in the leads by 70 meters. His start in comparison to his finish was, indeed, awful. Plus, if the wheels were at riak of falling off for himn(Bolt), it was in the first half of the race.
Lyles, on the other hand, is legitimately bad in relation to his peers. But again, context is needed. He was the worst starter in that final and it showed...but that's still LEAPS and BOUNDS (pun?) from where he was in 2021 and prior to. He is at least now able to stay in contact to allow his final 40 to get him a win like today...but in comparison to Bolts start it isn't even close, Bolt was a much better and dynamic runner out of the blocks.
Having said all that, the OLYMPICS record should certainly be in play, perhaps almost easily by Lyles. That record is still only 19.30, and Lyles was able to run 19.31 already before his stint of 100m success. The WR, though....maybe not. For him to have a shot at the WR, I think he'd have to try to get it at his peak when not running rounds....and even then it'd be a tight squeeze to get it at all.
Great analysis. I will be surprised if he runs faster than 19.45. He will be drained, like what we saw at Worlds last year.
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NYDCRunner1 wrote:
ThreadMurder wrote:
Most of what you said is off the mark, even when you're close to correct. Bolt WAS a bad starter, but that's a contextual statement. bolt ran a 6.36 60m split in his 9.58, if memory serves. He was typically in the mix after 40 meters, and probably in the leads by 70 meters. His start in comparison to his finish was, indeed, awful. Plus, if the wheels were at riak of falling off for himn(Bolt), it was in the first half of the race.
Lyles, on the other hand, is legitimately bad in relation to his peers. But again, context is needed. He was the worst starter in that final and it showed...but that's still LEAPS and BOUNDS (pun?) from where he was in 2021 and prior to. He is at least now able to stay in contact to allow his final 40 to get him a win like today...but in comparison to Bolts start it isn't even close, Bolt was a much better and dynamic runner out of the blocks.
Having said all that, the OLYMPICS record should certainly be in play, perhaps almost easily by Lyles. That record is still only 19.30, and Lyles was able to run 19.31 already before his stint of 100m success. The WR, though....maybe not. For him to have a shot at the WR, I think he'd have to try to get it at his peak when not running rounds....and even then it'd be a tight squeeze to get it at all.
Great analysis. I will be surprised if he runs faster than 19.45. He will be drained, like what we saw at Worlds last year.
Indeed, the fatigue is his (Lyles) biggest hurdle on the Olympic record. I'm kind of assuming that the hype and thrill, and even his prep before the games, are going to allow his to run high to mid 19.2, butttt, that's so much easier said than done. He may well have to survive the final low 19.5 or high/19.4.
Precedent for him is that he ran the 19.31 when his 100 was still such a wreck that he couldn't even qualify to Worlds in it. He had fresher legs on that one, for sure. Again, at Worlds last year in the double (and even at this USAs) he was kinda running for the win, not for wow-factor times. That may well be the case here, too. But, if he's GONNA ever pull off that kind of championships record time, it's here and now. I don't see him getting the World's/WR record with rounds like this.
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19.15 wrote:
Not really. Bolt was also a terrific second 50m guy in the 100m. Bolt's top end speed was second to none (including prime Lyles).
If Lyles has the start of his life, maybe he beats that record, but only barely. Bolt and Lyles have the same slow start from the blocks, but Bolt could accelerate to 9.58. Lyles, not so much.
Bolt ran his 19.19 into a .3 meter per second HEADWIND.
That is the reason--and the ONLY reason--Lyles has a shot of breaking this WR.
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It’s in his range if he catches the perfection reaction, wind, and the perfect race. Lyles is the first real threat to 19.19, but I think odds are against him being the one to do it.
But he might break 19.31. It’s a game of hundredths at this point.
19.19 will go before 9.58 though. 9.58 is stupid fast. Someone will eventually have a MJ-esque outlier run and take a crack at 19.19 first.
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not bloody likely wrote:
Curious_Cat wrote:
Let's go, 100m Olympic champion!
No 200m WR.
He might get lucky and break 19.3.
We're in a post-Bolt era so we'd better get used to the slower times.
Doesn't mean in can't be exciting.
What does post Bolt era mean? Are you saying Bolt doped and that’s why he ran as fast as he did?
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ThreadMurder wrote:
19.15 wrote:
Not really. Bolt was also a terrific second 50m guy in the 100m. Bolt's top end speed was second to none (including prime Lyles).
If Lyles has the start of his life, maybe he beats that record, but only barely. Bolt and Lyles have the same slow start from the blocks, but Bolt could accelerate to 9.58. Lyles, not so much.
Most of what you said is off the mark, even when you're close to correct. Bolt WAS a bad starter, but that's a contextual statement. bolt ran a 6.36 60m split in his 9.58, if memory serves. He was typically in the mix after 40 meters, and probably in the leads by 70 meters. His start in comparison to his finish was, indeed, awful. Plus, if the wheels were at riak of falling off for himn(Bolt), it was in the first half of the race.
Lyles, on the other hand, is legitimately bad in relation to his peers. But again, context is needed. He was the worst starter in that final and it showed...but that's still LEAPS and BOUNDS (pun?) from where he was in 2021 and prior to. He is at least now able to stay in contact to allow his final 40 to get him a win like today...but in comparison to Bolts start it isn't even close, Bolt was a much better and dynamic runner out of the blocks.
Having said all that, the OLYMPICS record should certainly be in play, perhaps almost easily by Lyles. That record is still only 19.30, and Lyles was able to run 19.31 already before his stint of 100m success. The WR, though....maybe not. For him to have a shot at the WR, I think he'd have to try to get it at his peak when not running rounds....and even then it'd be a tight squeeze to get it at all.
What the heck are you talking about? Bolt was an excellent starter. Always was.
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Sprinter Guy wrote:
It’s in his range if he catches the perfection reaction, wind, and the perfect race. Lyles is the first real threat to 19.19, but I think odds are against him being the one to do it.
But he might break 19.31. It’s a game of hundredths at this point.
19.19 will go before 9.58 though. 9.58 is stupid fast. Someone will eventually have a MJ-esque outlier run and take a crack at 19.19 first.
Agreed. It might be possible with perfect conditions. But it’s unlikely to be perfect. But that 100m win today was the most impressive thing he’s done to date.
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19.15 wrote:
Not really. Bolt was also a terrific second 50m guy in the 100m. Bolt's top end speed was second to none (including prime Lyles).
If Lyles has the start of his life, maybe he beats that record, but only barely. Bolt and Lyles have the same slow start from the blocks, but Bolt could accelerate to 9.58. Lyles, not so much.
I agree Bolt had higher top end speed, but the 200 is much more about who can maintain their top end speed the longest.
Have the splits on Lyles run been posted yet? His last three 10 meter splits must have been must have been about .81
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malmo wrote:
ThreadMurder wrote:
Most of what you said is off the mark, even when you're close to correct. Bolt WAS a bad starter, but that's a contextual statement. bolt ran a 6.36 60m split in his 9.58, if memory serves. He was typically in the mix after 40 meters, and probably in the leads by 70 meters. His start in comparison to his finish was, indeed, awful. Plus, if the wheels were at riak of falling off for himn(Bolt), it was in the first half of the race.
Lyles, on the other hand, is legitimately bad in relation to his peers. But again, context is needed. He was the worst starter in that final and it showed...but that's still LEAPS and BOUNDS (pun?) from where he was in 2021 and prior to. He is at least now able to stay in contact to allow his final 40 to get him a win like today...but in comparison to Bolts start it isn't even close, Bolt was a much better and dynamic runner out of the blocks.
Having said all that, the OLYMPICS record should certainly be in play, perhaps almost easily by Lyles. That record is still only 19.30, and Lyles was able to run 19.31 already before his stint of 100m success. The WR, though....maybe not. For him to have a shot at the WR, I think he'd have to try to get it at his peak when not running rounds....and even then it'd be a tight squeeze to get it at all.
What the heck are you talking about? Bolt was an excellent starter. Always was.
For someone 6'5, he was "excellent". Amongst the best starters in the world, he was adequate to great depending on his fitness and your perspective. And when out of shape and not particularly motivated, he could actually be quite a bit sub-par as a starter.
None of that mattered with the finish he had, really (false starts notwithstanding). By Rio I don't think he cared about his start that much outside of preventing it from being a disaster.
And ultimately the point I was trying to make but never got around to was Lyles is closer in ability to Bolt and his finishing ability than Bolts starting ability. Which is ironic because of how astronomical Bolts finish was. Maybe that's staying the obvious, but that all correlates to Lyles and his opportunity to close the gap on Bolts 200 records.
Also, someone here mentioned the reason Lyles has a shot at Bolts WR at all was he (Bolt) ran his 19.19 into a slight head wind. Let me adjust that thinking and say that the real reason Lyles has a shot at the record at ALL is because once Bolt ran that 19.19, he didn't care about pushing the limit anymore. If he had mined his talent more in the way Lyles appears to, Bolt would have probably pushed close to, or simply broke, the 19 second barrier.
And if Lyles REALLY wants to break Bolts record, he's going have to peak for a one off race in Lusanne (or some place like that) in the next year or two. Otherwise, the WR will never happen for him.
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Yes, but... wrote:
Some of those splits look off, though, as so many of those 10m split work ups are. 0.81 for Simbine?!?! Amongst a few other obvious iffy ones.
But I certainly do buy Lyles for a 0.82 split, for sure.
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I would add that the title is a bit of a hyperbole. But I believe in a great race without rounds, he has 19.10ish in him.
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malmo wrote:
ThreadMurder wrote:
Most of what you said is off the mark, even when you're close to correct. Bolt WAS a bad starter, but that's a contextual statement. bolt ran a 6.36 60m split in his 9.58, if memory serves. He was typically in the mix after 40 meters, and probably in the leads by 70 meters. His start in comparison to his finish was, indeed, awful. Plus, if the wheels were at riak of falling off for himn(Bolt), it was in the first half of the race.
Lyles, on the other hand, is legitimately bad in relation to his peers. But again, context is needed. He was the worst starter in that final and it showed...but that's still LEAPS and BOUNDS (pun?) from where he was in 2021 and prior to. He is at least now able to stay in contact to allow his final 40 to get him a win like today...but in comparison to Bolts start it isn't even close, Bolt was a much better and dynamic runner out of the blocks.
Having said all that, the OLYMPICS record should certainly be in play, perhaps almost easily by Lyles. That record is still only 19.30, and Lyles was able to run 19.31 already before his stint of 100m success. The WR, though....maybe not. For him to have a shot at the WR, I think he'd have to try to get it at his peak when not running rounds....and even then it'd be a tight squeeze to get it at all.
What the heck are you talking about? Bolt was an excellent starter. Always was.
Bolt is the most fundamentally pure sprinter off all time. He will never be surpassed as the GOAT. Back to back to back Olympic gold in the 100 and 200 will never again be done.
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