Slow Miles at Nike & New Balance Nationals…

Your last paragraph.

I think a lot of it comes down to most being uncomfortable leading the majority of the race, so they lead slowly and hope someone will come around and take it over, but no one does because no one else wants to lead the majority of the race.

Slow miles at NBON? Wow..there were 15 guys under 4:10.00 in unpaced affairs, 2 under 4:00, 9 under 4:05.00. This was one meet going on this week. There were another 10 under 4:10.00 at NON. I go back to the old days at Raleigh and AOC, as the ONLY real National Meet and there were no where near 10 guys under 4:10 let alone 25 being what we see now. Guys running this fast in non set up races, shoes or not..this or that or not? Is really fast running.

I don't know about the gross PR tally, but all any of us talked about is how fast everyone is getting at NB. Barely a race went by that wasnt a meet record. 2 boys sub 4 in mile, 9.95 100m, some records going down by 15 sec! It was a non stop trove of meet, national, and even World records at NB. Negative splits everywhere in middle distance events. Everyone is crazy strong in HS now.

With NIL money/commitments and more attention paid to NON, NB, etc., we are entering an era where young athletes will be choosing to skip or de-prioritize their state's championship to pursue a national podium.

Don't get me wrong, the fast heats are very fast. Some of the slow heats are dragging though. The entry standard was 4:13.5, and there were two entire heats where every single runner missed that mark, because they went out slowly.

some people still don't get this during the track season

Yeah this is what I was getting at. Looking back at the NBON fast heats, lots of PR’s, I was wrong. But these middle tier ones left me scratching my head a bit.

sorry, you guys are way way off. You have too look at historical perspectives. There were 28 guys in the mile UNDER 4:12.00. That never happens, I am not sure what you are looking for or dreaming of. But you are wrong. Some of those times, 16 of them were not from the premier seeded heat. That is a LOT. I am sure someone or more will down vote me, but look at the data from other years, also look at DMR anchors, some of these guys the same next day guys, it is INSANE.

Was just telling me wife, if you want fast Mile races at Nike and New Balance, race it first. Stop placing the Miles on the 4th day after kids are doubling and tripling and exhausted.

put the Mile Championship on Friday and you’ll see some amazing depth.

How about coaches getting kids to focus on a single event instead of doubling and tripling? you don't need to race the championship 5,000, 2 Mile, Mile, and a bunch of relays. In fact, you really shouldn't and coaches should know better.

This has nothing to do with historical perspectives. Every single runner in this field ran under 4:13.5 (or maybe 4:14.5 on provisional to qualify)

Nearly 65% of them were over 4:13.5. This was inarguably slow. There is no other way to describe it

So what? Tons of guys are "on the other side" of fitness. I also guarantee, this is the most guys under 4:12.00 in HS HS Meet on the same day ever. You are simply jaded or misinformed if you do not think that is adequate enough. Sorry. 28 under 4:12.00 same day? Not good enough for you? In a meet like this 50% of anyone's will simply underperform their PR in any events, it's 101 stuff. And again you are wrong historical perspective is what enables proper analysis and observation. You are a rube watcher who thinks anytime guys with nice PRs line up, they will all PR, just is not so. Look it up.

I do agree with this.

I looked it up.

HOKA Festival of Miles (a meet with half the entries in the mile) saw 28 sub 4:12 miles.

That was three weeks ago.

The fast heats at NBNO were fast. There is no denying that.

The slow heats were slow. There is no denying that.

Were the Festival of Miles races paced?

A yes or no will do

if yes? You have your answer as to why the miles were faster with less guys

just because you add guys doesn’t mean you are getting more top end quality

guys are not giving themselves up in normal “tactical “ races so that more guys can run fast

"Guys are not giving themselves up in tactical races so that more guys can run fast"

sounds a lot like

"Guys are running slower because everyone is scared to take the lead, which results in a slower pace until the last lap"

which is exactly the very first point I made in this thread, meaning we arrived at the same conclusion, you have been arguing with yourself.

The aim for most is to win a race. ask Centro if he cares about his winning time in Rio.

Kids are racing too much. I can't believe kids, including middle schoolers, are flying across the country on back to back days to is too much.