It's simple: Biological boys don't belong in athletic competition with girls. Why can't everyone see that?

Because we have entered the land of partisan politics to the extreme. People are only interested in their side and nothing else. Common sense, on both sides, has been thrown out the window. Why do people support Trump? Because he represents everything opposite the left. Why do people support Biden? Because he represents everything opposite the right. This is the world we live in now. Very few people can find common ground. Why will people refuse to agree with you? Because your side represents the far right (according to them) and they will not align themselves with anything that is considered as such.

Part of the reason for this issue, is that, in some cases, it is not “simple.” my friend is a pediatric surgeon and says he says many cases where things don’t fall into the “simple” baskets you’re basing your framing on.

Your posting title logic works 99% of the time. But those outlier cases make it hard.

All that being said, I don’t think it’s an either/or discussion. There is room for reasonable accommodation. Such as boys can run girls CC races, but not score/place. Often, kids sports are much more important in the socialization function than the competition scheme.

Every single argument that begins with “it’s simple” or “it’s common sense” is being advanced by a complete and utter moron.

conservatives screw up 3 ways here. first, you're neglecting the same school districts allow the kids to live their reality 7 hours of the school day before you start wanting to butt in for the sports part. they dress as girls, are referred to as girls, go to the bathroom as though one, etc. you then want to pout about sports. you're 7 hours late, dude. catch up. they have been a girl for school purposes since 7 am.

second, you resist efforts to reconfigure things at two levels.

(a) it's gotta be 2 boxes and not 3 with a nonbinary or open box

(b) it's gotta be the traditional understanding of 2 boxes.

re the 3rd box, it's the solution. the deal is in "traditional" times wheelchair johnny did not compete, trans tina was either closeted or excluded, and special olympics sal is off in a separate event someplace. times have changed, we have kids wanting to mainstream, it's time for an open 3rd category with special olympics, trans, wheelchairs, and maybe even JV kids who want to step up to varsity in a non-traditional category.

here's the deal. buried beneath the bull patties is you want them not just out of sports but browbeaten back into what they were. this is over. times have changed. you conservatives need some sort of progressive solution other than "back in the closet." to me the way that makes the participants happy without conservative crybabying is a 3rd category.

and the reality is, when i look at my area meet, maybe 1 kid in the whole meet signs up wheelchair. maybe 1 kid signs up 3rd category locally or even in the whole state. it's not some crisis for 1 trans kid in a state to compete in the whole track system in an event or two out of all classes, both genders. i am offering you 3 boxes to indulge you somewhat. if you want to insist you can watch this keep happening, as it's the progressive, dignity-affirming response to your own insistence on 2 boxes.

This is a pessimistic view. Most agree that transwomen/transgirls shouldn't compete with women/girls, that nonbinary prize money shouldn't be awarded, etc. But when you have a high school sports federation or race committee made up of volunteers and one member passionately says that trans girls should compete with the girls or that the race should give out equal prize money to the nonbinary division, the other members of the group, even though they are the majority, are afraid to speak up against it. They don't want to be the one to look like or be accused of being a bigot.

They see it.
Everyone sees it.

Everyone knows it.

Its the questioning that Marxist want.

One of the more interesting things to me about this...

Sure, if one day a 4:15 miler decides he is a "girl" and is allowed to race against girls... he is going to run a 4:15 mile.

But if he has to do the hormone treatments... he isn't going to be a 4:15 miler anymore. Which is one reason why I think AT LEAST the hormone/testosterone level thing needs to be in play. I think this would be a deterrent (at least to some degree) to keep some of the top people from pulling this stunt.

The solution is very simple to me. Ban performance enhancing genitalia in girl competitions.

There is good and evil, right and left/wrong. There is no middle ground. There are Democrats pushing for WW III with Russia/China, and there was true peace for the first time in long long time under Trump. Either mental illness is called out and treated for what it is, or every child is groomed and gaslighted into mental illness in evey school across the nation and extended empire. You're either with us, Americans, or with the Democrats.

You are mentally ill.

I hope you get help. If not for your sake then for the sake of those who care about you.

I'm firmly against trans girls participating in sports created for genetic girls, but I'd say we never even consider opening the door based on hormone therapy alone.

Literally have everything that God gave you removed and then we can talk.

Pecker? Gone

Balls? Gone

Then we can think about a conversation that includes hormone therapy.

The number of trans girls in high school sports would be reduced to ZERO overnight.

Thats true, but if trans high school girls come out and run a 10.7 or under 100,or a 4.15 mile or 48 second 400, and theyre already on hormone replacement, it will cause a lot of controversy. The outcry will be deafening.

You got the wrong perspective. Transgender right is never about protection of a certain demographic group. It has alway been about generating controversy, dividing people, selling papers, and getting votes. The debate will never be allowed to end no matter what the science says.

The same principle applies to debate on vaccines, voting fraud, BLM, etc. It’s nonsense but the show must go on.

I'm just guessing, but when it comes to high school sports, I'd bet most people who aren't against it just think "Who cares? It's just a game". To some extent, they're right. Especially when most of the trans girls competing aren't close to winning.

You have to remember the VAST majority of parents who show up to a track meet (T&F is the most popular HS sport I think, but the same holds true for other sports) are used to seeing their kid get crushed in races anyway. No one is gonna care if their kid was 5th in the 9th JV heat behind a trans girl who was 4th place. I think there is finally starting to be some pushback against it, but I think it'll take someone doing something that cis women just aren't physically capable of.

As for NCAA/pro sports, I think most people just don't care about women's sports as much as men's. Keep in mind there used to not even be women's sports, and it took a long time and effort to create a space for them.

More Dems now oppose trans participation than support it, albeit by a slim number. The percent that oppose it is growing very fast. Within a few years you could reach a tilting point that Dems join Republicans to oppose it by HUGE margins. Every trans girl that wins something of note moves the needle farther against the trans participants.

The debate ends when the Dems (and I am one) feel the voice of their constituents.

Or the debate ends (as far as the education domain goes) when a case gets to the Supreme Court, which would rule to protect girls' sports in the education domain (and I think most Dems would very silently breathe a sigh of relief).

A case will not reach the Supreme Court until another circuit court hands a decision that disagrees with the 4th circuit. The Supreme Court hears fewer than 1% of all cases. Those are either (1) constitutional matter, or (2) two circuit courts disagree with each other. The circuit court most likely to disagree with the 4th circuit is the 5th circuit. (TX, LA and MS.) Currently, there is not lawsuit against those states in the federal court.

When the 4th circuit court case went to the Supreme Court for injunction, seven of the justices supported injunction. (Alito and Thomas were the dissent.) So if the court makes a decision on the substance of this case, at least three other justices will have to agree with Alito and Thomas. Or maybe the composition of the court will move further to the right before it happens.

Over the course of history, untold millions of boys and men have had their testicles and/or peckers removed, unfortunately. It didn't turn them into women/girls. It made them eunuchs.

Female and male human beings are physically different to one another in thousands of ways large and small. It's ridiculous to suggest that when it comes to sports performance and potential, the only things that set apart the two sexes and create advantage/ disadvantage are our respective levels of steroid sex hormones and presence/absence of balls and a dick.

It's also ridiculous to suggest that boys and men can become the equivalent of girls and women anatomically and physiologically by getting rid of their dicks and balls and taking some Big Pharma hormones. That suggestion is based on the insultingly misogynistic view that girls/women are basically the same as boys/men except with lower testosterone, higher estrogen and without the dangly bits hanging between our legs.

When a male person claims to have a trans gender identity gets his balls cut off, has his penis surgically inverted so as to create a cavity in his pelvis that he can pretend is vagina, and takes so-called "hormone therapy" consisting of Big Pharma estrogen and/or progresterone, he doesn't change sex. He simply becomes a eunuch on exogenous cross-sex hormones.

Indeed, It’s a National crisis that we haven’t seen all high school governing bodies in each state adopt the World and College Standards! How will you ever watch the girls Division 3, long jump in New Hampshire ever again. I’m sure you care deeply about all these events and watch all levels of high school girls competition each year. Holy crap!. You should definitely make up a fictional national record scenario too!

Seriously, there are girls impacted by this in the near term. I wouldn’t want to be in their position. The governing bodies will deal with it. But I really doubt you cared any of these girls events before and won’t in the future.The issue will settle in a few years.

Biden is right. Drumpf is same ideology of his German dad (Arian Drumpf).