4:10 (road) mile shape?

Training Advice/Discussion 1500

3 weeks ago 05/22/2024 7:32pm EDT

Have been doing a very steady diet of 5:10 tempo. Recently ran a 3x 1600 in 4:41 off just under 4:00 rest feeling slightly slower than 5000 pace, in very hot weather. Today, in relatively hot and humid weather (85*, 65* dew point with 10 mph wind) I ran 2x 1000 tempo in 3:17, 3:14; 4x400 at probably 1200 effort in 60.3, 59.9, 61.1, 59.8 off 2:00 rest, followed by a couple of marathon-effort reps. The 400s felt very, very controlled and I ran them at an even pace - I split 30 and 45 on all, not coming through in 43 and fading. My official 800 PR is only 1:59 but I believe I was in easily 1:56 high / 1:57 low shape at the very worst as I ran it with a significant negative split.

My previous PR is 4:19 set with suboptimal splits (62, 70, 68, 58 and change). In a race with good competition and a flat, fair course, could I break 4:10?

3 weeks ago 05/22/2024 7:37pm EDT

re: Aspiring 4:05

Hmm. I’d say you’re getting close. A road mile will be quite a bit harder to hit a big PR on. Some pros barely crack 4. I’d say sub 4:15 on a track.

3 weeks ago 05/22/2024 7:38pm EDT

re: Aspiring 4:05

Hmm. I’d say you’re getting close. A road mile will be quite a bit harder to hit a big PR on. Some pros barely crack 4. I’d say sub 4:13on a track.

3 weeks ago 05/22/2024 7:42pm EDT

re: Not yet

Not yet wrote:
Hmm. I’d say you’re getting close. A road mile will be quite a bit harder to hit a big PR on. Some pros barely crack 4. I’d say sub 4:15 on a track.

Ironically, my previous mile PR is from a road mile as well (USATF certified so it’s a legit course - the Kenyan winner ran either 4:07 or 4:08 the week after a sub 2:10 marathon). The one I’m racing typically has winning times under 4:05 with 2-4 people under 4:10.

3 weeks ago 05/22/2024 8:48pm EDT

re: Aspiring 4:05

Aspiring 4:05 wrote:
Have been doing a very steady diet of 5:10 tempo. Recently ran a 3x 1600 in 4:41 off just under 4:00 rest feeling slightly slower than 5000 pace, in very hot weather. Today, in relatively hot and humid weather (85*, 65* dew point with 10 mph wind) I ran 2x 1000 tempo in 3:17, 3:14; 4x400 at probably 1200 effort in 60.3, 59.9, 61.1, 59.8 off 2:00 rest, followed by a couple of marathon-effort reps. The 400s felt very, very controlled and I ran them at an even pace - I split 30 and 45 on all, not coming through in 43 and fading. My official 800 PR is only 1:59 but I believe I was in easily 1:56 high / 1:57 low shape at the very worst as I ran it with a significant negative split.
My previous PR is 4:19 set with suboptimal splits (62, 70, 68, 58 and change). In a race with good competition and a flat, fair course, could I break 4:10?

I don't care that your 800 PR is 1:59. This part of the workout would be impossible to do off full rest if you were a 1:59 runner. Depending on how comfortable you are at 28.5 / 29 200 pace, I could see between 1:54 and 1:56.

You seem like a more endurance based type anyway based on my estimated 5000 time for you. So while you will need faster than 1:59, I don't think you need the ~1:53 time most young males need to break 4:10. If I were you on a track (adapt it to the specific course), I'd aim to run something like 2:05 (880y) / 2:01

3 weeks ago 05/22/2024 10:55pm EDT

re: run and see for yourself

run and see for yourself wrote:
Aspiring 4:05 wrote:
Have been doing a very steady diet of 5:10 tempo. Recently ran a 3x 1600 in 4:41 off just under 4:00 rest feeling slightly slower than 5000 pace, in very hot weather. Today, in relatively hot and humid weather (85*, 65* dew point with 10 mph wind) I ran 2x 1000 tempo in 3:17, 3:14; 4x400 at probably 1200 effort in 60.3, 59.9, 61.1, 59.8 off 2:00 rest, followed by a couple of marathon-effort reps. The 400s felt very, very controlled and I ran them at an even pace - I split 30 and 45 on all, not coming through in 43 and fading. My official 800 PR is only 1:59 but I believe I was in easily 1:56 high / 1:57 low shape at the very worst as I ran it with a significant negative split.
My previous PR is 4:19 set with suboptimal splits (62, 70, 68, 58 and change). In a race with good competition and a flat, fair course, could I break 4:10?
I don't care that your 800 PR is 1:59. This part of the workout would be impossible to do off full rest if you were a 1:59 runner. Depending on how comfortable you are at 28.5 / 29 200 pace, I could see between 1:54 and 1:56.
You seem like a more endurance based type anyway based on my estimated 5000 time for you. So while you will need faster than 1:59, I don't think you need the ~1:53 time most young males need to break 4:10. If I were you on a track (adapt it to the specific course), I'd aim to run something like 2:05 (880y) / 2:01

Have you ever run a 1200? Or 1000?

3 weeks ago 05/23/2024 5:21pm EDT

re: basically even across reps

basically even across reps wrote:
run and see for yourself wrote:
I don't care that your 800 PR is 1:59. This part of the workout would be impossible to do off full rest if you were a 1:59 runner. Depending on how comfortable you are at 28.5 / 29 200 pace, I could see between 1:54 and 1:56.
You seem like a more endurance based type anyway based on my estimated 5000 time for you. So while you will need faster than 1:59, I don't think you need the ~1:53 time most young males need to break 4:10. If I were you on a track (adapt it to the specific course), I'd aim to run something like 2:05 (880y) / 2:01
Have you ever run a 1200? Or 1000?

Only 800, 1500, and mile. 5000 is an event I’ve always slightly underperformed in (my best is mile to 3000) but I’m currently in14:20 5000 shape and think I could run about 2:59-3:00

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