When I run at marathon pace, I feel relatively comfortable, my breathing is controlled, and I can hold it with only moderate strain over 10-12 miles. However, my HR at that pace is around 160. My HR at threshold pace is around 170, and I can clock in the 190s in a VO2 max workout. Does this make me more likely to blow up in a marathon? Am I actually running at faster than marathon pace even though it feels ok?
My head's gonna explode if I see more of the HR zone threads.
If you can hold that pace for 10-12 miles with moderate strain during a block of training, then that's probably in the ballpark of your marathon pace once you're tapered and fresh and ready to hurt. Pay less attention to the heart rate and just run baby.
TL; DR: it depends, and you may not even have enough data to have a good guess.
Sorry, but first:
— are you confident that you have good quality measurements (e.g., good chest strap)?
— do you have enough readings taken over time for each?
I’m assuming you’re talking about average for each of those runs/paces. Do you experience similar cardiac drift in each?
Pardon me if you’ve already considered this, but since I don’t have information from you to rule it out, here goes. Here’s one way to think about it: my marathon pace heart rate is higher at mile 10 minute mile five. Same effort level.
I wouldn’t think you do enough distance and threshold to go more than 40 minutes, and seldom even that high, but if you have a lot of 20 to 30 minute volume at threshold, what you consider your threshold HR might be different than it would be if you had a lot of 25 minute workouts. And if you’re primarily doing intervals for threshold, that would be a factor too.
But the big thing is your level level of fitness and pace. Obviously, somebody incredibly fit and at OTQ level can run a race closer to threshold pace/effort/HR than a 3:30 runner without blowing up. And I think I’d read that elites generally are able to race marathons at higher % of max HR than even, say, 2:30 runners, with that even being a little bit more pronounced than their different times would suggest.
And, of course, there will be individual variations.
forget the zones wrote:
My head's gonna explode if I see more of the HR zone threads.
You definitely need to check your blood pressure then, and maybe you even want to see what HR zone you’re in right now.
Lots of factors wrote:
TL; DR: it depends, and you may not even have enough data to have a good guess.
Sorry, but first:
— are you confident that you have good quality measurements (e.g., good chest strap)?
— do you have enough readings taken over time for each?
I’m assuming you’re talking about average for each of those runs/paces. Do you experience similar cardiac drift in each?
Pardon me if you’ve already considered this, but since I don’t have information from you to rule it out, here goes. Here’s one way to think about it: my marathon pace heart rate is higher at mile 10 minute mile five. Same effort level.
I wouldn’t think you do enough distance and threshold to go more than 40 minutes, and seldom even that high, but if you have a lot of 20 to 30 minute volume at threshold, what you consider your threshold HR might be different than it would be if you had a lot of 25 minute workouts. And if you’re primarily doing intervals for threshold, that would be a factor too.
But the big thing is your level level of fitness and pace. Obviously, somebody incredibly fit and at OTQ level can run a race closer to threshold pace/effort/HR than a 3:30 runner without blowing up. And I think I’d read that elites generally are able to race marathons at higher % of max HR than even, say, 2:30 runners, with that even being a little bit more pronounced than their different times would suggest.
And, of course, there will be individual variations.
I feel relatively confident that I have a good measure of my average HR at MP and threshold. Maybe less so my max. Usually average about 30-35 minutes at threshold. Yes, I have some creep by about 5 bpm over the efforts. I'm a 1:13 half guy and was thinking about aiming for ~2:35. So, I'm still not quite sure what that tells me. Am I setting myself up for a blow up? Will how I do at the half not translate as well to the full?
Marathon HR should be lower than threshold HR, so you got that right.
thump thump wrote:
I feel relatively confident that I have a good measure of my average HR at MP and threshold. Maybe less so my max. Usually average about 30-35 minutes at threshold. Yes, I have some creep by about 5 bpm over the efforts. I'm a 1:13 half guy and was thinking about aiming for ~2:35. So, I'm still not quite sure what that tells me. Am I setting myself up for a blow up? Will how I do at the half not translate as well to the full?
It is way more telling to look at your training paces than your maybe-well-defined-maybe-not-well-defined HR zones.
It's possible to run a half in 1:13 with a relatively small amount of dedicated half-marathon training if you have superior speed. I've seen people do similar feats off of lower mileage training for the 1500. Bu, it's much, much less common to see someone doing lower mileage and shorter tempo/threshold work and run a 2:35.
If you're doing 10-12 mile tempo runs @ ~5:50–6:00 pace semi-regularly with enough supporting mileage and it's not absolutely destroying you, then that's a reasonable goal for a marathon.