400/800 training question

a young 400 meter runner doesn't need more than 15 miles a week of mileage. A few morning runs a week wouldn't hurt but a weekend long run might hurt him. Perhaps if he does XC next fall and shows his coach he has "talent" as a middle distance runner than maybe as a 10th grader he'll focus on the 800 and do more aerobic work. Don't add too much mileage now.

2:08 and 5:00 for an 8th grader doesn't show at least some "talent" as a middle distance runner? Get real. Along with a 53 pt., that's decent stuff.

IMHO, 30 m/wk is about perfect for this kid, assuming he did run 20 m/wk last year during the season. Do the long run, but keep it at about an hour. Morning runs can be used IF he needs them for mileage goals. Also, four track sessions a week is ridiculous. Don't go hard on these. Pick and choose your "tough" workouts. Good luck.

what would be the negative affects of such mileage? if anything, it would give him better stamina at all events and better prepare him for middle distance running, should that move take place in the future.

remember, you don't lose speed running mileage -- you lose speed by not training speed.

if you're adding 30 additonal miles on top of the intense track work that he's doing he'll probably end up getting hurt. He's young, inexperienced and in season. The mileage should have been initiated prior to the start of his track training. I was always taught, that when you increase intensity you decrease volume.

Disagree. I struggle to think of an example of somoeone who got burned by too much easy running.

Mo Greene and company run more than 30mi/wk. And they still follow the distance rule of "not more than 20% the mileage is hard."

Yeah, but they are grown men, not a 13-year-old kid.With his speed he should be running 47/48 by 18. 30 miles should be the max for him. I've always believed you train your strengths, and his is speed. He should build his running volume slowly through H.S. up to a max of 50-60 by senior year. That's enough to get him ready for college and 70+ mile weeks

I agree with all of the above, with the note that I would not lose focus on improving one's weaknesses, while the overall goal is to run well in the most appopriate event.

Normally I agree w/trackhead, but this kid is RIGHT NOW primarily a 400 runner (53 is very superior to 2:08). Adding even "easy" mileage to bring him up to 30mpw as a 9th grader ON TOP of the track sessions is too much, and like "coach" points out, is a high injury risk at this point. Next year he can try getting in some miles pre-season, but now is too late. Let him run as a sprinter another year and let him develop as he sees fit-KEEP IT FUN above all. 20 miles including track sessions is plenty.

I would advise getting something other than Runner's World as a training resource, though. Check out the Clyde Hart/Baylor info elsewhere on this site and share it w/ the coach.

400-1500 coach,

I agree with everything you wrote.

To calirfy, I'm not saying that you would want to change everything right now, but I don't think that getting 30mi/wk is very hard, even for a 400m runner.

If the team warmed up 2mi and cooled down 2mi mon-fri, that's 20mi right there.

Thank you for the replies.

400-1500 coach: Thanks for the reply.

I didn't mean an EXTRA 30 ON TOP of the track stuff- just 30 total/week. Like trackhead said, 20 a week is almost a given with the warm-up/cool-down and workout. He has already been at 20 per week in middle school, so I just don't think dropping miles will help. Maybe I am wrong. I do have Clyde Hart training resources, but I just don't exactly know how to go about sharing things like this with the coach. He was my coach as well and I just don't know what he would think of my advice. In HS, I did a lot of training different that he liked and it was successful (state champ, lots of state medals,etc.) so I don't want it to seem like I am "telling" him what works.

I wrote my brother an e-mail yesterday, because he wanted the advice, etc. Now, if anyone wants to correct my advice, that's why I posted it!

First of all, I told him it was going to be great training, etc. that the coach had a good plan in mind- I think it's essential that you have confidence in your plan, first and foremost.

I suggested March and April keep it at 25-30 miles a week. Comfortable effort on the distance runs. Do a 7 miler of the weekends, still at the easy pace. (He did these a few times during the bball season.) + the track stuff- all of which to do at a controlled pace. Do more, rather than faster on anything 400+ meters. ( the coach is "no pain, no gain", so I don' want him to think he must go all out everyday, because he would).

In May 20-25 miles would be fine as the main competition starts. Don't be afraid to take a day off.

Anything else???

Repeat for emphasis; HE IS A **SPRINTER** IN THE **NINTH GRADE!**

30 miles a week (total) with any serious track work is TOO MUCH right now. He can do that next year, and he will run an awesome 800. If he has run 20 miles of easy running, he doesn't need to add the stress of track sessions ONTO this. He needs a "safety valve"- not distance running piled onto his coach's workouts. I would BACK OFF on contradicting the coach- you are only setting up trouble! Let him HAVE FUN and EVOLVE into an 800 runner or whatever. And for God's sake, no 7-milers on weekends. 4-5 is plenty. He could easily be running 50-point off of 20 (total!), which would be a huge SUCCCESS. Overtraining in an attempt to break 2:00 or whatever would be FAILURE.

In short, keep out of the coaching, let things evolve, be supportive,and work WITH the coach, not AGAINST him. FYI his comes from someone who almost got kicked off of my own HS team several times because I DID know more than the coach (about distance training, not life). I learned to chill out on doing things only my way and came to a compromise. But that was my own thing, you are risking being the "bad guy" who will screw things up for him. Work with the coach, no matter how difficult that seems, you will get a lot farther in the long run (no pun)....

400-1500 coach:

Thanks for the suggetions. I appreciate them and will pass them on. I defintely won't be talking to the coach. I see people get involved in "telling" coaches what to do, and obviously most, if not all coaches despise that. My role has always been that of a supporter and that's all it should be for parents, siblings... whoever. But, I still think it's okay to be proactive and do a little on your own sometimes- provided it's going to help.

I don't want him to do too much, but he WANTS to do more- I have always had to tell him to do LESS. You're right though, 30 may be too much. 7 miles may be too much for a weekend run. Is there an age when it's okay to run for an easy hour? He is 15.

What exactly would you recommend this same kid who is asking for ideas to make him faster? He is a competitive type and is going to do weekend running even if you tell him not to. I don't think he's shooting for certain times, for example, but he likes to win ( he may be a sprinter, but did win state age group in the mile in 6th grade and 2nd in 7th grade-which was the 5:00, he didn't run it in 8th). Some kids are just competitive and still have FUN.

Also, completely different topic, but I am interested in what you do with your 400-1500 meter runners??

This is a kid. He isn't a 400m or 800m specialist. If he wants to run 7 miles, let him. If he wants to run 30 miles or more per week, let him. It may be that he becomes a 5k/10k person down the road.

That is not to say the coach should require a 7 mile run or 30+ miles per week.

Kids at this age should not be encouraged to specialize. A broad spectrum of athletic experiences will provide a firm foundation for whatever event this kid, as an adult, chooses for a specialty.