Does shorter rest periods between intervals train the body to dispose of lactate faster?

I believe there's a time and place in your training for both approaches. If you try to do a set of, say, 8 x 400 at around mile race pace, you probably need to do them with a long rest (like maybe 800 m jog). However, if you do a set of, say, 3 x (4 x 400) at about 3k race pace, then maybe you can get away with 200/400m jog rest between reps/sets.

Likewise, 6-8 x 800 at about 3k pace might need a longer rest, while 800s closer to 5k pace should not.

I believe these two workouts would be working very different systems and would be appropriate at different times in your training. The latter workout could be mostly aerobic, while the former would be a VO2max session.

Somebody jump in and correct me if you think I'm way off base.

I agree, both are beneficial for different things. If you're doing cruise/threshold pace for your repeats, the shorter the rest the better (I like to keep it at or under 60 sec.), but if you're doing intervals at anaerobic pace, longer rest is probably better, as at that pace you're going to build up lactic acid no matter what, so keeping a shorter rest period won't help build up your lactic acid threshold.

When I was training for shorter distances, I would over the course of a training period work from threshold pace (building up lactic acid threshold) to interval pace (working on pure speed). Now training for a marathon, I find most all my interval work at threshold pace however.

I've been coaching hs for thirty years. I'm convinced that I used to have my runners train too fast with too much rest between.

As soon as I dropped the rest to a max of two minutes and kept the times to race pace or slightly slower:

#1. Our ability to complete workouts within the set times improved

#2. The athlete's felt better at the end thus their confidence soared.

#3. Our performances are better

Yeah, my old HS coach used to have us blazing through some 400s. I always wondered why he wanted us to run so many so fast, when I wasn't really going to have to run that fast in the race.

I understand there is a time to build pure leg speed, but not every session.

Best 5k workout. No matter what time of the year or whatever. 5 x 1000 meters with (1:00) recovery at (5K pace)

Shorter rest will indeed improve acid buffering, assuming your interval pace is fast enough. By starting the next rep soon, you maintain a higher blood acidity level which prompts your body to increase and improve its buffering capabilities. Keep the pace fast enough to generate acidity, but not so fast that you cannot do more than a small handful of reps.

Late in your season when you are emphasizing speed, you will want to run fast reps and take more recovery.

Coaches Coach wrote:

Shorter rest will indeed improve acid buffering, assuming your interval pace is fast enough. By starting the next rep soon, you maintain a higher blood acidity level which prompts your body to increase and improve its buffering capabilities. Keep the pace fast enough to generate acidity, but not so fast that you cannot do more than a small handful of reps.

Late in your season when you are emphasizing speed, you will want to run fast reps and take more recovery.

short rests maintain a high blood acidity?? Well it depends on how fast and how short we are talking. If you run a 400m fast, like 800 pace, your blood lactate (and thus blood H+) can peak between 3-9 minutes after completing the 400. That's not very short rest.

Even if you run slower, say mile pace, the blood acidity peak will probably not occur for 3minutes or so after the run is completed.

Just pointing out that some of the logic on this thread is flawed. Not saying either one is better. Seb Coe used shortest rest possible, as did Steve Cram. Dave Moorecroft took looong rests (4-7minutes) for similar paced stuff.

wondering wrote:

short rests maintain a high blood acidity?? Well it depends on how fast and how short we are talking. If you run a 400m fast, like 800 pace, your blood lactate (and thus blood H+) can peak between 3-9 minutes after completing the 400. That's not very short rest.

Even if you run slower, say mile pace, the blood acidity peak will probably not occur for 3minutes or so after the run is completed.

You will note from my post that I mentioned the speed of the rep was a critical factor. Also, remember we are talking about 5K training here. It is assumed that the runner is doing intervals longer than 400.

Still your point about 'blood acidity peak' isn't really relevant here. One does not have to have the highest possible blood H+ concentration to promote anaerobic efficiency. Any pace above LT will promote increased PH of the blood and therefore improved buffering. There is no need to sit around and wait for your blood acidity levels to peak. Keep running, man!

DO BOTH, long recover and short recovery. They both work, and also, doing different recoveries will help to prevent you from becoming a runner who is only good at doing interval training.

Short rest, more lactate in your blood, train to run fast while under anaerobic stress.

Long rest, less lactate in your blood, able to keep pace, train to run a specific pace over and over again (Lydiard was keen on this, 6x800 w/800 rest).

Both are good.

Alan

If your cruising intervals, short rest.

If your hammering the intervals, long rest.

HMArunner wrote:

Best 5k workout. No matter what time of the year or whatever. 5 x 1000 meters with (1:00) recovery at (5K pace)

YES

Coaches Coach wrote:

You will note from my post that I mentioned the speed of the rep was a critical factor. Also, remember we are talking about 5K training here. It is assumed that the runner is doing intervals longer than 400.

Still your point about 'blood acidity peak' isn't really relevant here. One does not have to have the highest possible blood H+ concentration to promote anaerobic efficiency. Any pace above LT will promote increased PH of the blood and therefore improved buffering. There is no need to sit around and wait for your blood acidity levels to peak. Keep running, man!

The point was to show that short rest isn't needed to maintain blood acidity as was posted... I never said to wait for the peak to happen before starting every repetition.

i agree wrote:

HMArunner wrote:

Best 5k workout. No matter what time of the year or whatever. 5 x 1000 meters with (1:00) recovery at (5K pace)

YES

no. Too short of rest, too difficult. Longer rest, do workout more often.

Thank you for all the info guys. Good stuff.

no wrote:

i agree wrote:

YES

no. Too short of rest, too difficult. Longer rest, do workout more often.

wondering wrote:

The point was to show that short rest isn't needed to maintain blood acidity as was posted... I never said to wait for the peak to happen before starting every repetition.

Hello, and a very good top o' the morning to each and every one of you. This is a rollicking good discussion you have going on here. Congratulations to all who have posted, even the one identified as "wondering." Perhaps I can help Mr./Mrs./Ms. "wondering" better understand the value of short rest relative to improving one's ability to buffer acidity.

Indeed, short rest is not 'needed' to maintain blood acidity. A careful read of the posts by "Coaches Coach" makes no suggestion that it is necessary, only that it is functional. I am assuming that "Coaches Coach" is thinking of the value of improving anaerobic efficiency while at the same time improving other fitness components. To this end, workouts including intervals run slightly above LT with short rest will allow an athlete to run a moderately high volume while maintaining an intensity that allows for H+ accumulation in the blood. The benefits of this type of training are obvious.

On the other hand, Mr./Mrs./Ms. "wondering," you suggest running faster intervals of 400 or 1 mile. Hrrummph, hrrummph! What are you thinking, man? Yes, these will increase blood acidity levels, but your athlete will be able to do relatively few of these intervals leading to a shorter time with raised blood acidity levels and a reduced volume of training. If one's goal as a coach is to improve the athlete's anaerobic efficiency as well as his overall fitness, the athlete working under "Coaches Coach" is going to reap the greater benefits. The plan outlined by "Coaches Coach" allows for more time above LT and therefore greater buffering improvements as well as an increased training volume. Mr./Mrs./Ms. "wondering" will have athletes spending less time above LT leading to lesser buffering improvements, running less volume which reduces the overall fitness ramifications of the workout, though they will benefit from an increased intensity. Yet, if the goal of the workout is to improve the body's ability to buffer acidity, high intensity must take a back seat to the others.

Thank you for the opportunity to shed some light on the subject and help a brother gain a better understanding of proper training. Please enjoy the rest of the day. Erin Go Bragh!

Learn to read:

"Just pointing out that some of the logic on this thread is flawed. Not saying either one is better."

I was pointing out that short rests CAN maintain blood acidity, but so CAN long rests. Notice I never said what one to do or which I thought was better. My answer was purely physiological.

Pete wrote:

If you try to do a set of, say, 8 x 400 at around mile race pace, you probably need to do them with a long rest (like maybe 800 m jog).

Somebody jump in and correct me if you think I'm way off base.

Pete. The rule of thumb for the ubiquitous 10 x 400 at mile pace would be 1:00 minute rest.