Lifting progression - what is strong enough?

What is your goal with lifting? Are you tracking numbers or lifting to support your running? If you are lifting so you can run faster, then who cares what the number is, as long as you are seeing improvements on the track.

If you are wanting to be a weight lifter, then ...

* I don't believe in deadlifts.

* Bulgarian squats look like Kathy Smith or Jane Fonda workouts.

* Get in the squat rack and give us the results.

Just lifting to support my running. In that case, I’ll probably just keep the weight that I’m lifting the same and won’t worry about progressing it.

You should rethink your program if it feels stale. Don't just maintain. Noah Lyles says the biggest difference going into this season is his lifting. Check out Femke Bol also.

Form and proper muscle activation are more important than weight and reps. If I could speak to my younger self, I'd recommend getting a trainer to do on-the-spot corrections. That would have probably saved me a ton of injuries.

Also, for deadlifts, the trap bar is best. And it might help to drop the weights because most injuries happen during the eccentric phase of the rep.

Good luck. Weight lifting can both prevent AND cause injuries.

200m and 400m runners are very different to typical 5k/10k runner. not saying squats aren't important but probably less so.

I forgot Noah Lyles and Femke Bol are running 70+ miles a week and training for races that last longer than a minute. Not sure their weight training applies here. Again, I’m lifting to support my running. If I was a bodybuilder or lifting was my primary sport the advice would be a lot different. I don’t think my program is “stale.” I’m just at point where I don’t think the extra effort to increase weight is worth the risk. Maybe I’m wrong though. That’s why I created this thread.

You are runner primarily, don't get so involved in the weights and little niggly extra stuff that you get hurt. Imagine how dumb you would feel if you miss the race you signed up for months ago, with big time goals, and then couldnt run because you put on too much weight doing squats or whatever.

The big question is, are you "speedy enough?" As in top end speed. Can you run fast enough that speed is never a concern during racing and training? Only you can answer this. Silly examples, but if your goal is a 3 hour marathon and you can run a 12s 100m, speed isn't an issue. If your goal is a 2:00 800m and you can only run a 14s 100m, speed is a HUGE issue.

If you think you need more speed, gaining strength can lead to gaining power, which directly supports speed. You can, of course, make some speed gains without increased strength gains. It depends a lot on who you are and what you race. An speedy 400/800 guy can typically do some good, heavy squats. A marathoner, no so much.

On the subject of injury. Weight training, when done properly, is significantly safer than distance running. I firmly believe everyone needs to know how to squat, lunge, and hinge properly—heavy weight is not a requirement. These are fundamental movement patterns that will help (help, not totally prevent!) keep you injury free for life. But if you're hips can't hinge right like they're meant to, something will go wrong eventually. It may not be during your running career.

I'm with you, OP. I'm really pro-lifting, but I think that you very quickly hit the point of diminishing returns. I would switch to maintenance while going into more intense workouts. Another option is to transition from strength to power by adding things like power cleans and plyometrics.

Plyos are already a part of my routine. I do some power oriented movements but not a ton. I mix them in and out depending on the time of year.

To the other poster mentioning speed, are their gym standards that correlate to speed? I haven’t seen any. Anecdotally, the guys or can squat the most aren’t really the fastest 100m runners. Seems like it’s a matter of strong enough but maybe I’m wrong.

Don't forget to bench too little brah.

Yes and no. You often hear that most good sprinters can squat 1.5–2x their bodyweight. Some are stronger, some are weaker.

Strength alone is not indicative of sprint performance. Don't get it twisted. There's guys that can squat 3x more than me and they couldn't run a step with me.

Think about it like this. Speed is a product of power and technique. Power is a function of strength and time. You can increase power without increasing strength. You can increase speed without increasing power as well, just by improving your technique. There's a few ways to approach it, and a well-balanced sprinter is hitting every angle.

Ok, think about Farah and Rupp. You seem to want to justify being a slogger. Being more athletic, working balance, agility, explosiveness, should help everyone.

Not trying to “justify being a slogger.” No idea where that is coming from. Doing 3 x 5 hex bar deadlift at 1.5 x body weight and plyos seems athletic to me. I looked-up Femke Bol and Noah Lyles gym training. What Femke can do at her size with her levers is insanely impressive. Noah doesn’t seem to even lift that heavy. Saw a video of him doing a set of 5 hex bar deadlift at 225 and a single quarter squat at like 275? Not that crazy to me.