Its hard to do high mpw when almost every day you're touching on some fairly significant speed training
It is also counter productive when you need to be doing the training to be a sub47 400m guy. You don’t see a lot of full training logs but there are a lot of 30-60mpw 800m guys depending on if you are running sub 46 or sub 48. Throw in an hour in the gym doing lifts and jumps and that is a lot of work to recover from.
i have no doubt Hoppel 1500m would be better with 80mpw. I sort of doubt his 800m would be.
He would go from a 1:43 800 guy to a 1:45 800 guy if he wasted his talent on Lydiard training!
For 800, slow running= slow running. You do realize that 1:43 pace for a mile would equal a 3:26 mile! ...Requires totally different training. The only guys who were WR class at both were Seb Coe and Jim Ryun but they were 45-46 second open 400 guy with a giant engines/VO2 max and not at all like typical milers. They trained w extremely fast training, not Lydiard based.
Ryun, Snell, Ovett and Wottle, by today's standards were okay 800m athletes despite logging 100 miles per week. By today's standards, Ryun, Snell, Ovett and Wottle were not okay 800m athletes due to logging 100 miles per week. Reminder. When you are trying to copy mileage logged by Ryun, Snell, Ovett and Wottle, know all four men saw themselves as 1500m/one mile men.
He would go from a 1:43 800 guy to a 1:45 800 guy if he wasted his talent on Lydiard training!
For 800, slow running= slow running. You do realize that 1:43 pace for a mile would equal a 3:26 mile! ...Requires totally different training. The only guys who were WR class at both were Seb Coe and Jim Ryun but they were 45-46 second open 400 guy with a giant engines/VO2 max and not at all like typical milers. They trained w extremely fast training, not Lydiard based.
After a certain point it provides no benefit and will just make him slower, plus he needs to retain a certain degree of freshness in order to do speedier workouts, which if he doesn't hit the paces for he would actually be regressing
Thanks for the unanimous down votes to my original post. But seriously, Snell ran 1:44 sixty years ago and John Walker (coached by a Lydiard disciple) ran 1:44 fifty years ago.
Jim Ryun also ran 1:44 nearly sixty years ago and ran over 100 mpw in his base phase.
To say that these guys (and other high mileage guys like Coe and Ovett) were really primarily milers that happened to have great 400 speed suggests high mileage might be a good idea for 800 meter runners.
There have been a small percentage of f.a.t. sub-45 400m men who participated on cross country team. There are one or two or three f.a.t. sub-44 400m who participated on cross country team at some time in their life. You are trying to make a leap, because you have been able to identify less than 1/2 a dozen 100 plus mile per week guys with sub-1:45 800m therefor 100 miles per week is ideal for 800m men. I saw that you included Coe in your high mileage list of men. Once Coe started flirting with 100 miles per week, he never raced sub-1:43.5 800m again. Coe increased his mileage for his 1500m/1 mile.
You can run a fast 800m on 100mpw training. You will not win a medal because you are far more limited in the scenarios that you could run a fast 800m compared to a 30-50mpw guy that sprints and lifts.
You can run a fast 800m on 100mpw training. You will not win a medal because you are far more limited in the scenarios that you could run a fast 800m compared to a 30-50mpw guy that sprints and lifts.
Thanks for the unanimous down votes to my original post. But seriously, Snell ran 1:44 sixty years ago and John Walker (coached by a Lydiard disciple) ran 1:44 fifty years ago.
Jim Ryun also ran 1:44 nearly sixty years ago and ran over 100 mpw in his base phase.
To say that these guys (and other high mileage guys like Coe and Ovett) were really primarily milers that happened to have great 400 speed suggests high mileage might be a good idea for 800 meter runners.
But Coe was NOT high mileage; you error greatly on that point.
These cases are probably an "in spite of" not a "because of"
Not everyone can be complete genetic freaks like they were, the fact that they could manage that mileage running on the shoe tech of the day is proof enough of that.
O.P., I have given your thread more thought. Because the modern 800m runner may log (30 to 45) road miles per week, are you accusing the modern 800m runner of not training hard enough? Have you wondered what changes occurred in training for the world to go from less than a dozen sub-1:44 800m men all-time about 35 years ago to close to 150 men, all-time sub-1:44 800m today? At least in part due to books written by Peter Coe & David Martin, weight training, vigorous weight training has become the norm for 800m runners. There are only 168 hours in a week. In order for 800m men & women to have the time and energy to train properly, what do you want the modern 800m runner to do less in order to have the time and energy to log 100 miles per week?
Its hard to do high mpw when almost every day you're touching on some fairly significant speed training
It is also counter productive when you need to be doing the training to be a sub47 400m guy. You don’t see a lot of full training logs but there are a lot of 30-60mpw 800m guys depending on if you are running sub 46 or sub 48. Throw in an hour in the gym doing lifts and jumps and that is a lot of work to recover from.
i have no doubt Hoppel 1500m would be better with 80mpw. I sort of doubt his 800m would be.
Weight Training? Yet there is a famous professor who claims THAT has no effect on the improvement of a distance runner! In his opinion it's a MYTH.