How to figure out where I went wrong in HM

slowandfat wrote:

Just completed my 3rd HM in 1:41:21. Going in I was looking to break 1:35. I was at 7:15 pace for around the first half, then slowly stared to fade and went really bad after 10 miles.

2 months up to the race I averaged 36-37 mpw. Peak week was 46. 7 weeks ago I ran a 5k PR in 20:21. Was training with Daniels paces off that. 6 weeks ago I did a HM length workout consisting of WU, 10 mi @ 7:16 pace, and some strides with a CD which ended up being 1:40:xx total time. This felt great, not an all out effort. 4 weeks ago I did a 14 mi LR at a mostly easy pace, but mixed in some miles in the middle in high 7s pace, the 11th mi @ 7:16 and the 13th mi @ 6:50. This also felt great.

Other workouts were 10-12x400 at interval (6:26) pace, a lot of 3x1 mi with some 2mi mixed in at threshold (6:59) pace, along with a few 5-6X1km at threshold pace. I did 2 workouts, 1 LR, and 2-3 easy runs a week.

Trying to figure out where I went wrong. Easy answer is to run more. Also maybe some more longer, sustained runs around goal HM pace? Another issue I have is hills. This is the only HM course I've ever run, so I don't have anything to compare it to, but I doubt it would be considered hilly at all. however there were SOME hills, particularly a longer gradual downhill section you traverse twice, and my quads are trashed. The problem is where I live is pancake flat, and I get absolutely no running done on hilly terrain. May have to travel to some to get that strength in my legs.

Conditions sucked, temp was 70 with a 67-68 dew point. But I refuse to accept that as an excuse. It's easy to say I'm not fit enough, but I ran a workout in a faster time that felt like a breeze. My 5k time projected a HM in the 1:33 range, so I figured 1:35 was a good goal accounting for conditions, but I wasn't even close.

slowandfat wrote:

Just completed my 3rd HM in 1:41:21. Going in I was looking to break 1:35. I was at 7:15 pace for around the first half, then slowly stared to fade and went really bad after 10 miles.

2 months up to the race I averaged 36-37 mpw. Peak week was 46. 7 weeks ago I ran a 5k PR in 20:21. Was training with Daniels paces off that. 6 weeks ago I did a HM length workout consisting of WU, 10 mi @ 7:16 pace, and some strides with a CD which ended up being 1:40:xx total time. This felt great, not an all out effort. 4 weeks ago I did a 14 mi LR at a mostly easy pace, but mixed in some miles in the middle in high 7s pace, the 11th mi @ 7:16 and the 13th mi @ 6:50. This also felt great.

Other workouts were 10-12x400 at interval (6:26) pace, a lot of 3x1 mi with some 2mi mixed in at threshold (6:59) pace, along with a few 5-6X1km at threshold pace. I did 2 workouts, 1 LR, and 2-3 easy runs a week.

Trying to figure out where I went wrong. Easy answer is to run more. Also maybe some more longer, sustained runs around goal HM pace? Another issue I have is hills. This is the only HM course I've ever run, so I don't have anything to compare it to, but I doubt it would be considered hilly at all. however there were SOME hills, particularly a longer gradual downhill section you traverse twice, and my quads are trashed. The problem is where I live is pancake flat, and I get absolutely no running done on hilly terrain. May have to travel to some to get that strength in my legs.

Conditions sucked, temp was 70 with a 67-68 dew point. But I refuse to accept that as an excuse. It's easy to say I'm not fit enough, but I ran a workout in a faster time that felt like a breeze. My 5k time projected a HM in the 1:33 range, so I figured 1:35 was a good goal accounting for conditions, but I wasn't even close.

I don't know wrote:

slowandfat wrote:

Just completed my 3rd HM in 1:41:21. Going in I was looking to break 1:35. I was at 7:15 pace for around the first half, then slowly stared to fade and went really bad after 10 miles.

2 months up to the race I averaged 36-37 mpw. Peak week was 46. 7 weeks ago I ran a 5k PR in 20:21. Was training with Daniels paces off that. 6 weeks ago I did a HM length workout consisting of WU, 10 mi @ 7:16 pace, and some strides with a CD which ended up being 1:40:xx total time. This felt great, not an all out effort. 4 weeks ago I did a 14 mi LR at a mostly easy pace, but mixed in some miles in the middle in high 7s pace, the 11th mi @ 7:16 and the 13th mi @ 6:50. This also felt great.

Other workouts were 10-12x400 at interval (6:26) pace, a lot of 3x1 mi with some 2mi mixed in at threshold (6:59) pace, along with a few 5-6X1km at threshold pace. I did 2 workouts, 1 LR, and 2-3 easy runs a week.

Trying to figure out where I went wrong. Easy answer is to run more. Also maybe some more longer, sustained runs around goal HM pace? Another issue I have is hills. This is the only HM course I've ever run, so I don't have anything to compare it to, but I doubt it would be considered hilly at all. however there were SOME hills, particularly a longer gradual downhill section you traverse twice, and my quads are trashed. The problem is where I live is pancake flat, and I get absolutely no running done on hilly terrain. May have to travel to some to get that strength in my legs.

Conditions sucked, temp was 70 with a 67-68 dew point. But I refuse to accept that as an excuse. It's easy to say I'm not fit enough, but I ran a workout in a faster time that felt like a breeze. My 5k time projected a HM in the 1:33 range, so I figured 1:35 was a good goal accounting for conditions, but I wasn't even close.

The workouts you did were more than enough. Were you tired? How we're you running those 36-37 mile weeks? Was it a lot of short runs?

Cascading wrote:

slowandfat wrote:

From Daniels. 20:21 5k computes to 1:33:31. I did think that felt ambitious, so figured I'd go for 1:35.

I'm 38, 5'10", 190. Heavy for a runner I know. Most regular people would see me as a fairly "fit and muscular guy", best way I could describe it. Haven't been this lean since I dieted down for bodybuilding competitions in my 20s. I'll never be a great runner, just trying to do the best I can while also not being a stick.

Ok. From McMillan, it’s 1:34:13.

I’d generally see a minute or so allowance as a discrepancy for faster course vs. hillier/slower course if you’re pretty well trained for that slower course. But your circumstances didn’t allow for that. So maybe just a bit more? 1:35:30-1:36?

For any distance running, but especially above 10k, that temp/dew point is more brutal than it seems. Heat and humidity will generally affect heavier runners more, so that’s another consideration.

And then think of this: Say you walk to the line knowing those circumstances and adjusting your goal downward appropriately (conservatively, say, going out toward a 1:38 but hoping you are being conservative and therefore feeling good enough to get below 1:37:30, maybe down near 1:37.).

You didn’t do that? OK, but now it’s not just conditions slowing you down; you’re also going out too fast for conditions. Going out too fast = another hit on your time. You think you’re running your HM pace for that day? Nah, that’s closer to your 10-mile pace under these conditions. And your fade/blowup seems right in line with that.

If you’d had nice weather, I could’ve seen you going 1:36 if that’s what you paced for.

Yeah, your result is maybe a bit slower than I’d expect anyway, but still, when those kinds of factors come together, a race can fall apart pretty badly. And you can still have better/worse days without necessarily really being “off.”

Don’t let it bother you. Looks like you’re doing good training and making good progress.

jdroche135 wrote:

slowandfat wrote:

Just completed my 3rd HM in 1:41:21. Going in I was looking to break 1:35. I was at 7:15 pace for around the first half, then slowly stared to fade and went really bad after 10 miles.

2 months up to the race I averaged 36-37 mpw. Peak week was 46. 7 weeks ago I ran a 5k PR in 20:21. Was training with Daniels paces off that. 6 weeks ago I did a HM length workout consisting of WU, 10 mi @ 7:16 pace, and some strides with a CD which ended up being 1:40:xx total time. This felt great, not an all out effort. 4 weeks ago I did a 14 mi LR at a mostly easy pace, but mixed in some miles in the middle in high 7s pace, the 11th mi @ 7:16 and the 13th mi @ 6:50. This also felt great.

Other workouts were 10-12x400 at interval (6:26) pace, a lot of 3x1 mi with some 2mi mixed in at threshold (6:59) pace, along with a few 5-6X1km at threshold pace. I did 2 workouts, 1 LR, and 2-3 easy runs a week.

Trying to figure out where I went wrong. Easy answer is to run more. Also maybe some more longer, sustained runs around goal HM pace? Another issue I have is hills. This is the only HM course I've ever run, so I don't have anything to compare it to, but I doubt it would be considered hilly at all. however there were SOME hills, particularly a longer gradual downhill section you traverse twice, and my quads are trashed. The problem is where I live is pancake flat, and I get absolutely no running done on hilly terrain. May have to travel to some to get that strength in my legs.

Conditions sucked, temp was 70 with a 67-68 dew point. But I refuse to accept that as an excuse. It's easy to say I'm not fit enough, but I ran a workout in a faster time that felt like a breeze. My 5k time projected a HM in the 1:33 range, so I figured 1:35 was a good goal accounting for conditions, but I wasn't even close.

Seems like you were in shape to pull it off. 70 degree temperature is a legitimate excuse. That's gonna slow anyone down whether you like it or not.