Paradox for Masters Runners

I'm 65. I think 4x a week is too few. For me, what works, is typically 6 days a week with an occasional 5 day week.

Also, don't use a week (7 days) as your cycle. Use what's comfortable for you- 8-10 days, more?

The "extra" days can be just a real easy, low mileage run. But you're putting in miles even if they seem to be junk miles, they're helping.

I ran my best in my 40's and I was logging up to 70 miles.

Not running because you think you might, possibly, maybe could will get injured doest really make much sense to me.

Obviously you need to build slowly.

4 days a week isn't enough unless you are just starting out even with the extra gym work. Days off for recovery are only necessary if you are actually recovering from hard training. Are all four days of your current running hard? I consider easy jogging as a recovery day. At the moment for me, that's upwards of 10 miles (16k). If I'm truely knackered, I'll fully rest.

At 47yo I can't get away with an every other day being a workout day like in my youth. An 8-10 day cycle is way better than a seven day cycle if you can schedule it. For me, the long run generally has to be on a Saturday. So I stick with a 7 day cycle, but sometimes push the next workout all the way to Wednesday if needed.

My general schedule wants to look like this:

Mon) easy jog

Tues) workout

Wed) easy jog

Thu) workout

Fri) easy jog

Sat) Long/marathon pace workout

Sun) easy jog

But sometimes it looks like:

Mon) easy/light tempo/strides

Tues) easy jog

Wed) threshold

Thu) easy jog

Fri) easy/strides

Sat) Long/marathon pace workout

Sun) easy jog

Central Tenets of Masters' running:

-Age-grade absolutely everything

-make sure everyone knows how old you are every time you speak

-fund the USATF

Agreed. I think the key is to run as much as you can safely handle. You don't always know that amount ahead of time, but you'll get a pretty good idea if you are in the vicinity based on how you feel on a daily basis.

I would never arbitrarily run 4 days a week. Based on trial and error, at 49 the sweet spot for me is 6 days a week with a few doubles.

the hold of the marathon over masters runners is a serious problem.

a masters athlete could train very effectively for 3k-10k on 50 mpw. Get all he can get out of his legs and do well. And race every few weeks instead of once or twice per year.

but still many/most masters runners insist on being marathoners. And their 40-50 mpw limits mean that these runners can't run a marathon at their potential. They suck at the marathon because you can't be a good marathoner on 40-50 mpw.

It's stupid. Don't let let the marathon win. Fight back. It's not a normal race. It's extreme and you don't have to do it.

People should do what makes them happy, but I tend to agree with you that most masters runners would be well served to concentrate on 10K or shorter. The older I get, the more I realize just how much of an anomaly people like Tommy Hughes are.

One philosophy that seems to pervade nearly all masters training plans is the assumption you've maximized your aerobic development. Meaning, you likely ran in college, ran after college and are now entering your second or third decade of consistent training. At that point it does make sense from a physiological standpoint to focus less on mileage and more on sharpening for key races and above all else, staying healthy.

But the reality is BY FAR most of us haven't peaked in our aerobic development. This could be for a number of obvious reasons, we're newer to the sport or haven't spent the years others have consistently training. At that point I think the general recommendation of limiting running while substituting cross training is suboptimal for those looking to still improve race times.

So I think it's completely reasonable to push aside the masters training orthodoxy, especially if you're finding the body is still responding well to significant mileage.

this isn't really a paradox - it is a realization that you have to individualize training plans. Just following someone else's script is not a good training plan.

You appear to know enough about yourself to write your own plan. So try it.

What is your marathon PR, what are your goals and what is your age?

That seems to be the minimum to look at your case and give you a sensible answer.

From 40-45, you can pretty much train just like anyone in their 30s. I used to do 70-90 mpw when I was in my early 40s. The only real modification I had to make was making my easy days easier. Instead of running 7-8 min miles on easy days, I would shuffle out 9-10 min miles to let my legs recover.

From 45-50, things need to change very quickly. One workout a week and a long run are going to be the max for hard efforts. Mileage needs to back off to about 50-60 mpw max. And you need to have one day a week where you rest and do not run. Strength training and stretch become crucial.

Not true. I’m 47 and average 130ks a week, front loading my week, Saturday off, LR Sunday. That drops to about 90ks if I have a race. I tried getting the same out of less k’s and it doesn’t work. Everyone is different but to say you just drop off after 45 is not true.

The only thing I’d recommend for an older runner is that by now you should know your body so listen to it. If you’re tired, sore, whatever don’t push it. Still get out but go easy. I’m use my recovery metrics in Garmin as a guide (not the be all and end all though).

Male, 55.

I agree with this, and I kinda wish I had admitted it even earlier in my adult running experience. Following a plan to the letter gives a sense of satisfaction and something to share the blame if you come up short... those were both useful to me at that time.

Now, instead of a plan, I have a ballpark weekly mileage in mind. I want to do some threshold stuff, some VO2max stuff, and some long stuff. Sometimes I'll tack the threshold on the end of a long run. I can generally get 5-6 "workout" sessions in a two-week period. I generally run six days a week. Sometimes seven. Sometimes five. Never more than 14 days in-a-row. Sometimes I'll double. I keep the mix at 85-90% easy early in a cycle. Peak around 80% easy. And I train where I'm at, not at where I used to be nor at where I wish I was.

So, lots of wiggle room.

The search for the sweet spot is a fun challenge in and of itself.

Same with me. 51 male. Ran Sub 3 last year. I feel like after you've run 5-6 marathons, you build some confidence around what your body requires to perform well at that distance. I don't follow any plan specifically, but know what key runs I need to include.

I think many times earlier in my running career, I would stop for a week every time I felt a pain coming on, then get back to it, then take more time off. I see a lot of runners, particularly masters runners do this, and it's the sure-fire way to never get better (and get worse). There are definitely times to take a few days off, and schedule in a back-off week. But let's face it, at 50+ a few aches and pains are not the exception, they are the norm. But hopefully we've learned to manage them much better.

I'm also a firm believer in adding in lots of easy miles. I am still surprised when I opt for an easy 5-7 mile run vs taking a day completely off, how much better I feel. Getting older and wanting to marathon just means we need to get smarter about it. That's our advantage over the youngsters.