can basic speed be improved significantly

17:30 is more like a 58/59 equivalent IF YOU ARE A SPRINTER. The chances of being able to do both as PRs simultaneously are virtually zero (unless you are an 800/ miler with a much better PR in those events), There is very little "linkage" between the two events (one being about 90% anaerobic, the other about 95% aerobic). If you could do a 60 you should be thrilled, but don't expect it to help your 5K. It might even hurt (if you convert too many slow-twitch to fast-twitch). If you were an 800 runner, or maybe a miler, you might concern yourself more with your flat out quarter speed.

Do some short strides (6-8x100) several times a week and work up to 4x200 with 5 min. rest once a week and you will have plenty of footspeed for the 5K. See JKs recommendations in the "good threads" post at the top of the page.

yeah there's a difference between anaerobic activity and aerobic activity. because i haven't broken 60 in the quarter yet ( I HAVE HORRIBLE LEG SPEED) but i'm a 16:15 5k. i wouldn't try to improve on something unless it was born in me. you would be wasting your time with short speedwork when you should be focusing on your strengths such as longer intervals and tempo runs. i wouldn't do short speed work (100's, 150's, and 200's) unless i was in the last few weeks of training before a big race. and i wouldn't do anything short of 400m during the season. like i said, stick with long intervals such as 800's, 1600's, and tempo runs.

NEMS wrote:

I am currently a 17:30 5K guy (I know: it sucks)and have been running for a few years now. According to the charts on the runningtimes equivalent calculator, I should be able to run a 57 second 400 meters. Otherwise I would like the requisite speed to be even as mediocre as I am over the longer distances. However, when I attempt some all out 400s on the track during interval training, I can't even even close to that. Is it highly unusual for someone to have such a large gap between their 400 metre speed and ability over the longer distances? I was wondering whether improving my 400 meter speed would help me over the longer distances or if it would merely bring this in line with my 5K and 10K times. Hope this makes sense. Thanks.

I completely disagree with those guys.

Yes you can improve it, and yes it will help your 5km and 10km.

Sure you could improve your 5km 10km some more without improving your 400m speed, but only to a point. If maybe you'd like to run 14:40 (70s per lap) a few years down the line, thats just not gonna happen when your flat out 400m is >60s.

You think Bekele would be able to do 12.5 laps at 61s if his 400m speed wasn't in the region of 50s (and thats with really well developed endurance too).

I have a same kind of problem: I´m very slow in short distace.

But my LT is very high (87% VO2max).I wondered can i improve without first lifting Vo2max higher?

I've run 14:50 for 5K - never could break 60 for a 400. Believe what you want to.

The equivalency chart you are using is likely wrong. Most equivalency charts will give 400 speed as 87-88% of mile speed and 75-78% of 5000 speed. For someone running 17:30 and 5:00, the MEDIAN (remember some are faster or slower) 400 speed is 65. Someone running 16:15 and can't run a 60 sec 400 will likely find that running 57 is necessary to run 15:30. You don't want to try to be a sprinter, but realize that to run faster times in the 1600 and 5K, your 400 times will have to get faster.

In improviong speed, I would not specifically target 400 times, and I would not try to go out and run a bunch of fast 300's or 400's. I would not do more than one all-out 300 in any one workout (too stressful for high school sprinters even), and you don't even need to do any of these, unless you intend to race a 400. I would target shorter speeds. There are two workouts that I use, which work extremely well together:

6X100, all-out, sprint the straights, walk the curves for recovery. This is a 6 minute workout (warmup is much longer) which provides the ability to produce ATP fast enough in order to train a higher top speed. This is also one of the best workouts available to increase velocity at LT (what Noakes calls "lactate turnpoint"), so it improves distance performance as well as sprint performance.

4-6 X 60m, also all-out. Accelerate to top speed over the 30 meters, maintain top speed (relax!) over the second 30 meters.

If you can do one of the above workouts (alternate them) each 7-10 days, you will see your top speed improve significantly over several weeks (If you do each workout 4-6 times in a number of weeks).

I'm a miler who regularly gets my doors blown off in 5Ks and cross by guys who do less mileage than me and have 400 PRs 5 seconds slower. Of course, the tables turn once things get below 3K.

i've run 3:44 for 1500 and no better than 54 for 400. extra speed certainly doesn't do any harm but I doubt it is your limiting factor at the moment

"... i wouldn't try to improve on something unless it was born in me...."

Good idea. That's why guys like Bob Cousy, Larry Bird, Raymond Berry, Paul Silas, and so forth never were any good. They were too lazy to develop their talents.

I was in the same boat. I was a 17 minute 5k guy (had much better equivalent times for longer distances) with 60 second 400 speed.

I started doing form drills and more strides, combined with a pure speed workout every week or two (something like 200s with full recovery) and lowered my 400 time to 56 in a few months.

You might be surprised. I simply never worked on my speed. Naturally, it improved when I did a little work.

Thanks everyone! I didn't expect to get so many good responses.

Is really 6x100m one of the best workouts available to increase velocity at LT?

jekso wrote:

Is really 6x100m one of the best workouts available to increase velocity at LT?

From Renato's training journal for Shaheen:

Thu 1 hr moderate 30 min easy + 2 sets of 6 x 100m (track) in 13" recovery 15" between every test, and 5 min between sets (this one is called "intermittent training", and is the best way of training for improving the threshold before some lactacid training)

There is some background in Noakes pp. 154-161. This type of workout has been around for a long time, going back at least to when Lee Evans had the 400 WR in the 1960's. It was used by John Smith with Quincy Watts (43.5, gold medal), by Joaquim Cruz during late base, and others, and is best used with short rest as a race pace workout:

6X100 or sets of 4X100 @ 90 sec rest is 200 pace

sets of 6-7 X 100 @ 45 sec rest is 400 pace

sets of 10X100 @ 25 sec rest is 800 pace

sets of 6-10X100 @ 15 sec rest is 3000 pace

Doing this weekly for about 4 weeks has very significant effects, which seem to be related to producing ATP at race pace and raising LT to a high speed. For distance runners, this is best done after 2-3 months of more conventional Lt training sonsisting of tempo runs, 2000's @ 10K pace, and such, and before anaerobic training like 10X400. The 6X100 type workout allows you do build speed while keeping peak lactate well below 10 mmol, and it seems to allow you to cut the weeks of 400's you need to reach a peak in half.