Threshold Pace is too Fast

You need to get a lab assessment of your current lactate threshold. Without knowing your actual numbers, you're just guessing on your threshold paces. More than likely, you're running too fast, especially if the pace is feeling too hard.

You run double threshold for the equivalent of a 4:15 mile?

Yep I do. It’s fun. The times will come when you’re enjoying the training you’re doing and being consistent

I did 8x4 min a couple day ago on my own for a lactate test and got these numbers.

3:30 = 2.5 mmol (148 HR)
3:20 = 0.8 mmol (153 HR)
3:15 = 1.2 mmol (157 HR)
3:10 = 1.3 mmol (159 HR)
3:05 = 1.4 mmol (163 HR)
3:00 = 3.0 mmol (167 HR)
2:55 = 3.5 mmol (167 HR)
2:50 = 3.8 mmol (171 HR)

I think you're overthinking, and maybe afraid to work hard. These numbers seem fine to me. Doing reps as short as 400 meters for threshold pace, it takes some time to get your lactate back up, so you have to go pretty fast in a 400 meter rep to get it up whic is why you're seeing 2.5 at 4:30 pace, vs 4:52 ish pace for the 1k reps.

Can you try a session of 5:00-6:00 repeats instead of capping at 1ks? Perhaps the shortness of the reps means that your OBLA isn’t spiking as you’re running the faster efforts.

what is the recovery between these 1ks?

You run 25x400 at 67 for a 3:56 1500? And double T at ~4:53 / mile ?

I'm surprised you haven't already burned out. Train like a normal person - 12x1k at tempo for example - instead of this unscientific garbage

So, your threshold pace is significantly faster than the fastest in the world is what you're saying?

Also, this. When I could run 10x400 @ 65 w/ 60s rest, I was close to 4:00 shape. OP more than doubles the amount of reps, halves the rest, and only goes a tad slower, but barely runs faster?

As you train threshold more, one should expect their threshold will reduce down to 2.5ish mmol. Perhaps you are trained up closer to your physiological limit--while your peers are still undertrained.

Idk though maybe I'm an idiot.

New hot workout to confuse the lactate threshold testing sheep crowd:

100 x 100m @ threshold with 9s recovery.

But these numbers tell you nothing if you don't know your true current lactate threshold.
If you can, get a real lab test to determine LT, then train accordingly.

Your pace on the threshold 400's (67) is crazy fast. Most elites run these threshold 400s with 30 sec recovery at close to their current 10K pace. 67 is about 27:45 for 10K.

And I'd guess that your 1Ks are faster than your current 10K race pace (30:30).
I'd say if you can't get a lab test, you better slow down on the "threshold" training or you're gonna crash and burn. I don't see how these paces could be sustainable for you long-term.
And that's what this kind of training is all about; continued improvement over the long haul.

It sounds like you're serious about your training and improvement. If your school can't test you, invest a bit of your own funds to find out your actual lactate threshold.
If you ain't assessing, you're guessing.

When one is overtrained one of the symptoms is not being able to bring lactate to high levels. Could you try a hard or all out effort for 2-4mins and see what lactate do you get?

From your 6x4 (which is albeit on slightly shorter reps then generally used 6 minutes) it would appear that you would be running marathon at 3:05 with sufficient long runs to back your threshold training. That does not seem consistent with your previous performances at the moment.

The very best test is performance itself so an all out effort would be indicative from both performance and lactate levels perspectives.

That is what I thought, too.

Not getting above 3 mmols after 25 x 400 at ~3k pace looks like 2 weeks easy might be the way to go.

Extreme low lactate levels can be a symptom of being sick/overtrained.

Many people do their longer threshold intervals closer to 2.0 mmol, including Jakob and (once Marius) I believe. As the poster above mentioned, you need a lab test to get a precise, individualized threshold estimate. But looking at your 8x4 above (by which I assume you meant 8x1K), it seems that your usual 3:04 pace is in the right ballpark. Maybe not 3:02 quite yet.

So to answer some questions. I do 5x2k in the morning at <2.0 mmol. I take 30 second rest on the 400’s and 60 seconds the 1km reps. How would low lactate mean I’m overtraining? Wouldn’t high lactate mean I’m overtraining?

Also I can’t get a lab test since I live on a small island in the middle of nowhere

Stop doing double thresholds for a while and go faster at the reps 3.5-4.0 mmol and see what happens.I bet you will get a fast positive result.1-2 threshold intervals per week is enough and perfect.

You’re relying too much on numbers instead of how you actually feel