Jakobs 2023 season vs Noahs 2023 season (I think Jakob's was better)

I think Jacob's season was one of the greatest we have ever seen in middle/long distance running

I think you are not wrong that Jakobs season was better and rarer. Sprint doubles/triples in this case happen, and Noah didn’t have the outstanding 200m time that he ran last year, let alone a historic 100m mark. Noah did deliver better at Worlds and was man of the meet I think we can agree. Fair or not, there is a ton of focus on the sprints and someone coming in to be a Bolt successor. There has been less focus on a next mid-distance superstar in the same vein after El Guerrouj. Noahs double was also newer than Jakobs double/dominant running (though I agree it took a major jump in 2023). Ultimately, it becomes a narrative award and they chose Lyles because he exceeded expectations in the marquee event (the 100) on the biggest stage while Jakob stumbled in his marquee event on the same stage. Fair? Maybe not, but I get it.

I fully agree which points to my question because I am not even sure Lyles had one of the 5 greatest 100-200m seasons in history. So how can this possibly trump arguably the greatest (or in the very least one that sits on the Mt Rushmore) of MD/LD distance running?

I get your point on exceeding expectations - but did Jakob not? He ran top 3 times in history in 4 events - in ONE season!

As for performing on the biggest stage, I also get it but sometimes we can be too hard on these guys for failing by the slimmest of margins. He lost the 1500m final by about 30cm and still ran under 3.30 in a championship race. We forget that similarly Noah could have just as easily not even made the team over the 100m possibly under similar circumstances.

Again, Lyles isn't undeserving - I'm just not sure if he was the most deserving (vs a guy not even on the shortlist).

I dont think it does, but here are seasons that are arguably better than Jakob's 2023:

Geb '98 (basically set a half-dozen records, 12:39/26:22, many 7:25-7:27 clockings, 3:31i/4:52i, undefeated outside of an 800 inddors
Bekele '04 (World XC sweep, 12:49i, only loss Olympics 5K Silver, Olympics 10K Gold, WRs of 12:39/26:20)
Coe '81 (800 and 1000 WRs of 1:41.7/2:12.18, was 3:47.3y a WR?, undefeated season with 800m World Cup Win when it mattered)
Kipketer '97 (undefeated, 3 times under 1:42 including 1:41.11, dominant win at Worlds indoors and out, 1:42.67i)

Probably not but not far off:
Komen '97 (World 5K gold, 2 mile WR, 12:39 5,000 etc.)
El Guerrouj '99 (Worlds gold in 3:27.65, mile WR, 2000 WR, 7:23.09 3000m)

Yeah I have no issue with your POV. Jakob exceeded expectations for sure, but Noah did at Worlds and that made all the difference as far as how the narrative is spun.

I think one of the factors working against Jacob was that Kipyegon's season was arguably even better at the same distances. She not only achieved the double Gold but set WRs in the events.

Yes, it's not really fair to compare Jakob and Faith but I think if she had not had such a historically great season Jakob's would seem more impressive.

Jakob 2023: 3:27.14 (makes him 4th fastest all time) and another sub 3:28 clocking plus Indoor WR in 1500k;

3:43.73 mile (3rd fastest man all time).

2k 4:43.13 WR, shattered El G record by over 1.5 secs.

3k: 7:23.63 run one day after his 3:43 mile; 3rd fastest runner all time

2 mile: 7:54.10; shattered Komen WR by 4.5 secs. I think this is superior to Komen's 3k WR of 7:20.67.

5k. One race, won WC

I think that is up there with any season of any runner

I the fact that we are now starting to compare this 2023 season from JI with these seasons here is telling us something.

There is simply no way he was not the male athlete of the year. No disrespect at all to Noah, but Jakob not winning this award is comical. It wasn't for male athlete of the Budapest World Champs because if it was then fine, I have no problem with Lyles. But for the year 2023 - a full body of work? Absurd.

Yes you can make it simple.

A world gold, a world silver across extremely competitive events that are as strong and deep as they have ever been.

3 x all-time top 3 performances and 2 x world best ever performances across 5 different outdoor events?

I agree with you it's as good as we have ever seen apart from Bekele in 2004...

thinking about it its actually INSANE jakob didnt win the 1500m at worlds with this season

bizarre blip. maybe he was ill (which would also make the 5000m win insane). then again maybe it was just nerves, they can do funny thing to people when the pressure is on because quite frankly another global title in 1500m was and still is overdue

I agree. And with a gold in the 1500m WC he would surely have been picked before the four finalists…

But (based on a lot of Jakob interviews) I think he is comfortable by not getting the award. -Simply because he wants to win in a dominant way, and because his 2023 wasn’t dominant enough:

1. His 3.27.14 was an underperformance. -He had a bad day (according to himself), and due to early lactate he benefited so little from the pacers that the race in my view was a solo effort.

2. I think he could have run even faster in his 2mile and his 2000m, but these two performances get a pass -one cannot expect a 100% hit…

3. His mile was an underperformance, because of jet lag and not optimal pacing.

4. His 3000m was of course a joke, given the context.

5. In the WC 1500m he underperformed maybe 2 sec in my opinion due to obvious sickness, and at least 5 sec in the 5000m (he was extremely lucky getting the gold; pretty sure Kejelcha easily would have out sprinted him and Katir in normal weather conditions).

I agree with what I think Jakob feels: It’s OK to give the award to one of the others in a season Jakob was unlucky with sickness.

Because this is the case: It’s the future that counts -Jakob hasn’t at all realised his potential. And the question is: Will he ever!?

Jakob’s injuries is a bad sign. We know he have had to skip 6 weeks of altitude camp, and we know he’s still not back to running. Well, he was sick nearly two months last winter, and had problems with both hips after that (++), and still progressed pretty good, but this injury now can be more severe…

The key to understand Jakob is to listen to all his interviews, and really try to understand what he is saying (repeatedly), f.ex “just the next guy” wording: This sounds like a disrespect to Kerr, and sort of is that too, but Jakob could (has) said the same about Coe and Cram too, and obviously tries to come in a position to call El Guerrouj “the next guy” as well…

Jakob’s main point is that he himself isn’t that talented. So he talks about training philosophy, because he wants to talk about something he knows something about. And I think what he says to Kerr is: Athletes like you, and Wightman, underperform because of your training regime. -You too could be good over multiple distances, like me, and you could progress faster and much more convincingly and steadily over the years if you trained like me. But you don’t -you choose to hit narrowly (based on a one time peak and tactics) in championships. -Therefore the label “the next guy”…

Jakob isn’t “the next guy” because he does things differently -he wants to get all his potential out in a broad sense. Winning WC’s or Olympic games simply isn’t good enough! And of course he knows that compared to El Guerrouj, Lagat, Ngeny he will in a sense always be “just the next guy” in the 1500m (because he will never be better than these guys here; not even running 3.25 -because of minus for the shoes, lights, tracks). But Jakob got this large thing up his sleeve: He can make these goats “the next guy” in stead of himself by showing a superior range.

I see two problems with Jakob’s project:

1. Injuries / family problems.

2. Some of his opponents show resources and progression not anticipated (f.ex Nuguse’s mile). But deep down I don’t think Jakob would care all that much being beaten if he knew he had done his best…

I would love to see a “Best athlete of the year” award for Jakob, but preferably after dominating more than he did this year.

Yakob is pretty much the greatest 2000 -3000 meter runner of all time at this point. He deserved that award more, but sprinting is always a more popular sport and even a 19.50 in the 200 will gain more attention than something like a 7:19 3k.

While I agree that Jakob had a better season than Lyles, it's unfair to compare them over so many disciplines. Distance runners can run much more distances while sprinters are usually concentrating on 2 events max. Lyles can't run 150m or 189m during the season. We should be comparing 100/200 and 1500/5000 between them only.

Letsrun does not name Jacob as a nominee for the Letsrun track+field athlete of the year.

Lyles, Kiptum, Mondo, Crouser. Good choices. But should be five with Jakob

I agree with only comparing them on 100/200 and 1500/5,000 (which also helps Jakob because that means we’re not looking at the gold medal Lyles won in the relay). If we only look at those events, it’s close but the edge goes to Lyles.

Let’s compare their regular season and then world championships.

Regular season: They both went undefeated and ran fast times but didn’t break records in their primary event. Draw

Lyles ran a bunch of races in his off-event and lost several times, however, he did pick up a Diamond League win in the 100 in Paris. Jakob didn’t contest any regular season 5,000 races. Would he have won those 12:40-12:41 races? We can only speculate. We know Lyles won a Diamond League race in his off-event, and Jakob didn’t. Advantage Lyles.

World championships: Obviously advantage Lyles.

Overall: Advantage Lyles but Jakob definitely should have been a finalist. He had an outstanding season.

Didn't Lyles lose some 100 races?

Sorry, bad writing on my part. What I meant is they both went undefeated in their primary event during the regular season and ran fast but didn’t break records in their primary event. I wrote about how Lyles did in his off-event in the very next paragraph.

The problem for Jakob is that he had his best results in events that only running nerds care about. The 2 mile WR, 2k WR, and mile European Record are great but they aren't events that anyone cares about outside of narrow distance running circles. Lyles won the sprint treble and didn't rely on off-distance races like 150m or 300m to garland his season.

It also doesn't help Jakob that his female equivalent, Faith Kipyegon, did the exact same double that Jakob was going for, and broke the World Records in the championship distances that people actually care about.

Overall, I would agree that Jakob has better results across the season, but Lyles was the best when it mattered most, which is what matters for AOTY