The BIGGEST cheats in international X-Country Championships or Athletics are:

when did Szabo ever test positive for something????

yeah, and it doesnt stop with age-falsifying. Do you really think ANY of the gulf-nations dont pump their athletes to the eyeballs with roids?

Rashid Ramzi goes from a nobody to a 3.30 and 1.44 guy, and double world champion??? some stuff just is going too far.

We had a group of Qataris training at our track in Germany, and they found out one the guys from the club was a chemist (a triple jumper). On the FIRST DAY they found out about this, the coach went up to him with a "shopping list" of steriods he had been told to get. Are you serious? out in the open, no bashfulness, just get them. And these were 48 second 400m runners and 15 meter triple jumpers. So whaddya reckon is going on back home with the "top" athletes. Disgraceful.

Isn't Aouita the Bahrain coach now?

Ramzi didn't go from nobody to 3:30/1:44 double world champ

2005, 3:30/1:44 pr's and 2 world champs

2004, 3:30 pr, and silver or bronze in world indoor 800m champs

2003, injured during the season, but ran mid 3:30's, and defeated Saif Saaeed Shaheen

He's got talent, and it came around after hard training, and it was shown earlier. This situation is similar to Alan Webb, he had the talent, but had some troubles, and then came up really faster in the last couple years

It's pretty amazing though that Ali Monsoor Belal(Bahrain) ran 1:44 and 3:33 as a 16 year old. I'm not saying it's not possible, but deffinately speculative worthy. One could argue that runners from poor nations would have more reason to use steroids because they need the money so much more than the rest of the world.

ali mansooir is liike 26

irun wrote:

It's pretty amazing though that Ali Monsoor Belal(Bahrain) ran 1:44 and 3:33 as a 16 year old. I'm not saying it's not possible, but deffinately speculative worthy. One could argue that runners from poor nations would have more reason to use steroids because they need the money so much more than the rest of the world.

Michael Bautista wrote:

Ramzi didn't go from nobody to 3:30/1:44 double world champ

2005, 3:30/1:44 pr's and 2 world champs

2004, 3:30 pr, and silver or bronze in world indoor 800m champs

2003, injured during the season, but ran mid 3:30's, and defeated Saif Saaeed Shaheen

He's got talent, and it came around after hard training, and it was shown earlier. This situation is similar to Alan Webb, he had the talent, but had some troubles, and then came up really faster in the last couple years

Michael, you have a reasonable amount of cred on this site - but you let yourself down with un-informed, un-factual, stupid efforts like this.

Rashid Ramzi

2001 3:43.2h Rabat 16 Jul

2002 3:44.85 14 DNG Stockholm 16 Jul

2003 3:39.30 1 Rabat 31 May

2004 3:30.25 AR1 GGala Roma 2 Jul

2005 3:30.00 AR1 GGala Roma 8 Jul

his 2003 season at 1500m

3:39.30 SB (98) 1 Rabat 31 May

3:53.18 1 ArabC Amman 9 Sep

3:50.07 2h2 AsC Manila 20 Sep

3:41.66 1 AsC Manila 21 Sep

3:49.04 1 Busan 27 Sep

4:09.98 1 GulfC Al-Kuwait 10 Oct

further more, look at his results - as a 22 year old when he was still "Morrocan"

3:44.85 SB (389) 14 DNG Stockholm

3:46.41 2 AsC Colombo

3:47.33 1 AsG Busan

Rashid Ramzi is the biggest disgrace to the IAAF and more so to every middle distance runner that competes and is registered to a national body, that is in turn registered to the IAAF. For him to be the IAAF WORLD CHAMPION, and for him to represent every middle distance athlete as the absolute PEAK of excellence, is disgraceful.

Rashid Ramzi (like so many that preceeded him as cheats) is no more than a 3.42-45 1500m runner, with good, not stellar talent. To drop from 3.39 to 3.30 is NOT NORMAL, never will be, despite efforts from people like yourself trying to find ways to justify it (as you did in this case by making up some stastical crap)

Was he ever injured though? Couldn't that explain some slow times, by way of poor and/or inconsistent training?

mate... and just how do you reckon MB knows that? I guess he found out from the same "mid 3.30's beating Shaheen" source. I guess all the American guys are running 3.36-3.38's and not 3.30 flat's because they are all "injured and training inconsistently" Gimme a break.

Oh and Ali Bansoor is not 16 by the way. I have sat about 5 feet away from him, and I dont need to be a Harvard grad to work that out

Again, Bahrain set up is run by Khalid Boulami - brother of Brahim - but a bigger cheat. This guy has no morals. The system in Bahrain reeks, also an Ethiopian came from obscurity to run 3.57 once she ran for Bahrain.

Michael Bautista

I have no solid evidence on Rashid Ramzi but I definitely am leary of him being a clean Champion and also the same shadow is cast on Ali Mansour. The meteroic rise of Rashid and the method in which he dismantle the field in the 800m/1500m Championship finals was just too good to be true. In most cases when athletes suddenly become world beaters they AT LEAST showed some sign of greatness beforehand ie World Junior Championships, Youth Games, X-Country, National Championships etc. The almost instant rise doesn't always have to follow the premention venues but in most cases it does.

The fact that an athlete can rise from mere talented at the national level and in less than 2 years completely dominate two world class fields at a major championships....? While I haven't definitively labeled him as a drug cheat, I have yet to cast my vote on him being clean-the jury is still out on that. Over the last decade I have suspected several athletes of being drug cheats and have been right on all of them, surprisingly one did slip my radar (Regina Jacobs). So while I no longer sit at 100%-my opinion is that sooner THAN later Rashid Ramzi (along with several Gulf countries) will be exposed for what he/their athletes are: champions or cheats?

oooooouuuwwww Michael Bautista... you got burned brotha... what you gonna do about dat?.....

Sorry Mike I am with everyone else on Ramzi here...I've also talked to people who have run against him on the Gp circuit the last two years and they have seen him do questionable things. Could be just gossip, but when you hear it from independent parties and the fact he has teamed up with Boulami AND is in Bahrain, things seem pretty funny.

However from the perception perspective, people should understand that you can't just look at his times and say that is indicative of drugs. People have made much more bigger jumps before and he wasn't allowed to race a lot in 2001-2003 because he had to stay at home and pace ElG and all the time, one of the main reasons he actually left to go out on his own. And for someone taking drugs he actually hasn't had some mind-blowing seasons - sure he won the 1500/800 which is incredible but the last few years have been kind of a low point for both events, and the guy has yet to really crush 3:30/1:44 right?

oooooouuuwwww Michael Bautista... you got burned brotha... what you gonna do about dat?.....

tell me WHO has made a 9 second jump in a 1500m from 3.39 to 3.30 before? This is not like a 3.49 runner going to 3.40 pal. More-so, tell me who has gone from being an average international 1500m runner to beating EVERYONE whos anyone in one season as Ramzi did when won in Rome 2004. That is the same as say - Sean Jefferson going to Europe this year and winning a Golden League race in 3.30 beating the top 10 ranked guys in the world.

Mind-blowing seasons??? You dont think winning the 800/1500m double is mind-blowing??? It hasnt been done at Olympic/World Champs level since Peter Snell in 1964, despite attempts by many legendary athletes, including Coe, Ovett, Cruz, Cram. In terms of a pure sporting result, his performance in Helsinki was arguably the best by any athlete in any sport for 2005. Are you happy to sit there and nod your head?

A few "low points" in the last few years - well, no shit - thats what happens when you are just simply a C grade international and you have to rely on your own ability when it comes to big events. Thats why you run 3.30 flat in July 2004 in Italy, then a month later run 3.46 at the Olympic games. The difference was this year he, his scumbag manager (who is Arab-AMERICAN by the way), and his team of mad scientists in Bahrain, managed to keep in on the juice so he could fling himself the track in Helsinki with the grace of an epileptic hyena (another tell-tale sign for you) and cheat his way to two gold medals.

And drugs can only take you so far. Thats why he wont crush 3.30 or 1.44, because he is a poor talent, and chemically he has probably reached his potential. Never did he have the talent of El Guerrojou or Bekele to enhance on to world record level as those two have done.

Guilty until proven innocent with this guy, and comically there will NEVER be a way to ever do that.

\'You dont think winning the 800/1500m double is mind-blowing??? It hasnt been done at Olympic/World Champs level since Peter Snell in 1964, despite attempts by many legendary athletes, including Coe, Ovett, Cruz, Cram.\'

Ahem, Dame Kelly Holmes. Athens 2004.

Or are women not being included here?

I dont understand how any of you know his talent level. You keep saying he has average talent when there is no way you actually know what kind of talent he actually has. Unless you have been coaching him since he was young. My point is MAYBE he made the big jump from 339 to 330 becuase in reality he is actually extremely talented and prior to that jump he had done little training or had lots of injuries. Now I would say that if I had to bet on whether hes on drugs or not I would probably say he is, but dont act like you know something for sure when you really are just speculating.

El Guerrouj improved from a 3:43.54 runner in 1994 to a 3:31.16 in 1995. That's 12 seconds bub.

I never said that his double was crap, and certainly you would agree that Dibaba's double is probably a lot better given the competition she ran against and the times posted, right? My point was that the 800 has been really soft the last two years with hardly anyone breaking 1:44 last year! And the 1500 - hardly anyone breaking 3:30. In the final, he didn't have any of the top Kenyans or Lagat to contend with. I know it's their fault for being tactical imbeciles but at the same time it also means he had a less quality field to deal with. Look at the other medals duh.

I really think he is on drugs based on other things, but you can't make a compelling case based on time progressions is what I am saying.

huh? wrote:

El Guerrouj improved from a 3:43.54 runner in 1994 to a 3:31.16 in 1995. That's 12 seconds bub.

It'd be nice if you could use El G to futher your cause, unforuntaly, many people doubt he's the example you think he is.