I started paying attention to U.S. XC in 1986 or 1987. I believe this is the lowest caliber group we will have sent to the World XC in that 20 year period.
Is it simply that there isn't enough incentive for guys like Meb and Culpepper to run, or is it just that we don't have much talent right now.
Certainly, Ritz could place top 25 or 30 on a good day, but I can't imagine anybody placing higher than that.
Even the women (who have shown some XC prowse) are looking pretty average.
idiotic post.
several teams will do very well in fukuoka. some teams have serious medal potential.
idiotic post.
several teams will do very well in fukuoka. some teams have serious medal potential.
The last I checked, Goucher and Hall have faster 5k PBs than Meb and Culpepper respectively. Ritz has performed well internationally in the recent past. Lincoln has run 7:41 indoor in the past. Charlie Gruber has run about 3:33.
I don't see where you get off saying this is the weakest squad in years. They aren't going to beat the Ethiopians, but they certainly stand on higher grounds than the American teams of the 90s. In fact I would argue this is one of the stongest teams since the 80s.
What is "prowse"? Did you mean prowess? You just posted to stir up a reaction, there have been far worse teams than this one.
I don't understand. Why are we always bashing our fellow American runners when we should be supporting them?
People on here enjoy bashing Acosta, Blood, Rupp, Withrow, or whoever else has a "bad" race. I don't see the Kenyan's bashing there young runners, instead they embrace and support them.
I think this is a strong gruop going to Japan, even better, most are very young and will have many world championships to look forward to.
Recoil wrote:
I started paying attention to U.S. XC in 1986 or 1987. I believe this is the lowest caliber group we will have sent to the World XC in that 20 year period.
Is it simply that there isn't enough incentive for guys like Meb and Culpepper to run, or is it just that we don't have much talent right now.
Certainly, Ritz could place top 25 or 30 on a good day, but I can't imagine anybody placing higher than that.
Even the women (who have shown some XC prowse) are looking pretty average.
That's hilarious, because the 7-12 this year in the 12k would probably beat any US XC team from the crappy '90s. It's unreal how much those years sucked. Do you realize that more NCAA runners are breaking 14 indoors so far this year than would break 14 in the whole US some of those years?
The 4k Men's team has lets see, Goucher, Lincoln, Hall, Dobson, Torres, and Watson with Fam (Olympian) as the alternate right now! This is by far the best 4k team the US has ever assembled in any manner since 1998 (1st year of the 4k) and has real medal potential. These are the bes 3k-5k distance runners in the US. Watch the indoors and see how Goucher dominates the 3k. Then you have the 12k, obviously Hall and Torres if they run will opt for the 4k as it is the last year for this event and the better team (Goucher or Lincoln) would have been top 5 in the 12k for sure.
The 12k team is then Max King (running as fast as Culpepper for half marathon this year, oh, faster on a harder course actually, 1:03:09 and same for #2 man) and Hartman (see above note), and Ritz in the 3rd spot (27:38 in college, something Meb nor Alan even came close to achieving at age 24!). These guys are all 3 as good as Culpepper! Abdi could not handle the early pace with these young guys. The other 3 runners are then by process of elimination, Gabrielson, Leslie, and Henry Dennis. Ok, maybe here you have a 13:34 guy who is decent, a guy who led Brian Sell in January for 7 miles during a 1:02 half marathon, and a older guy making a great comeback. How is this team weak?
Maybe you are talking about the women's teams. You still have Carrie (only 2004 Olympian at 1,500m), Blake Russell (who is running the best of her life right now). In the women's 4k they have medal potential as well with several sub 15:25 5k runners! On the women's long course team, McGregor (US Champion on the track and world team qualifier on the track), Metivier (a top US Cross Runner for 2-3 years now), Slattery (former Gordon) is now coming into her own post collegiately and has the looks to go with it, and then I guess Sharon Dickie is just not that good either, since she got married? You are really an assho.. with this weak team crap.
Are you the same guys who wanted Meb to run the 10k at the Olympics where he would have be completely embarrassed and maybe lapped in the final 1k when Bekele dropped it to 53 on the last quarter around Meb's PR pace. Grow up, Meb did the right thing and is now a marathoner. Alan and Meb don't run cross because they would get beat by these young guns. On the women's side there are two missing big time 8k runners, Elva and Deena, and in the 4k Amy Rudolph. They may all be training for something bigger. The men's 4k would have the best possible 6 if Broe was healthy, that is it. So let these kids do a great job and shut the fu.. up, IDIOT!
no way those guys are as good as alan. combined have they worn 0? usa senior jerseys? international experience helps. the 4k team is a very nice squad, the 12k is a very weak one. comparing 5k track times to ability in 12k xc has no relevence, by the way.
Just to remind everyone - Ritz got his ass kicked at nationals last week, he shouldn't be expected to be the 1st American in Japan. I wouldn't put him in the top 5 of best American distance runners. Until he has a healthy year and actually runs faster than other Americans I'm not going to get on his jock. The best he's done as far as times go is his 27:38, which was only the 5th fastest 10k (4th fastest performer) of the year that year (2004). I hope he runs well and gets under 27 one day, but I worry that he'll keep getting dinged up every year and never put together long stretches of solid training and that in 10 years he'll be a "could have been" guy that might have a national title or two, but nothing else to show for it.
Mtn Dew wrote:
Just to remind everyone - Ritz got his ass kicked at nationals last week, he shouldn't be expected to be the 1st American in Japan. I wouldn't put him in the top 5 of best American distance runners. Until he has a healthy year and actually runs faster than other Americans I'm not going to get on his jock. The best he's done as far as times go is his 27:38, which was only the 5th fastest 10k (4th fastest performer) of the year that year (2004). I hope he runs well and gets under 27 one day, but I worry that he'll keep getting dinged up every year and never put together long stretches of solid training and that in 10 years he'll be a "could have been" guy that might have a national title or two, but nothing else to show for it.
not making excuses for him (as he has not either for all the poeple who like to give him shit about that) but its absolutely obvious that ritz had an extremely off day at nationals
his performances in europe were far superior to what he did that day (not saying he wouold have beaten hall who was completely on but it would have been a lot better)and I think its safe to say that that plus his experience with the race (the 23rd place he had) definitly makes him the best bet to be the top american with a still remaining shot at top 15-12
believe it or not folks everyone has bad days, ritz too
and it doesnt indicate anything about his career or his season
calm down
I'm expecting some big things from the juniors-5 strong collegiates and a high schooler. The top 3-4 should be very strong.
Apparently Ritz has a lot of bad days. Or maybe he's just not as great as people think he is. I can list a lot more disappointments from him than successes.
hmmmm wrote:
not making excuses for him (as he has not either for all the poeple who like to give him shit about that) but its absolutely obvious that ritz had an extremely off day at nationals
his performances in europe were far superior to what he did that day (not saying he wouold have beaten hall who was completely on but it would have been a lot better)and I think its safe to say that that plus his experience with the race (the 23rd place he had) definitly makes him the best bet to be the top american with a still remaining shot at top 15-12
believe it or not folks everyone has bad days, ritz too
and it doesnt indicate anything about his career or his season
calm down
I would agree with you, and cut him more slack as well, only his post race comments sounded really bad. He said his training has been up and down over the last few months, vey inconsistant. had he said he had a bad day or he didnt know what happened i would throw it out as a bad day, but not being able to train right for a while is not a great sign.
Recoil Dipsh.. wrote:
The 4k Men's team has lets see, Goucher, Lincoln, Hall, Dobson, Torres, and Watson with Fam (Olympian) as the alternate right now! This is by far the best 4k team the US has ever assembled in any manner since 1998 (1st year of the 4k) and has real medal potential. These are the bes 3k-5k distance runners in the US. Watch the indoors and see how Goucher dominates the 3k. Then you have the 12k, obviously Hall and Torres if they run will opt for the 4k as it is the last year for this event and the better team (Goucher or Lincoln) would have been top 5 in the 12k for sure.
The 12k team is then Max King (running as fast as Culpepper for half marathon this year, oh, faster on a harder course actually, 1:03:09 and same for #2 man) and Hartman (see above note), and Ritz in the 3rd spot (27:38 in college, something Meb nor Alan even came close to achieving at age 24!). These guys are all 3 as good as Culpepper! Abdi could not handle the early pace with these young guys. The other 3 runners are then by process of elimination, Gabrielson, Leslie, and Henry Dennis. Ok, maybe here you have a 13:34 guy who is decent, a guy who led Brian Sell in January for 7 miles during a 1:02 half marathon, and a older guy making a great comeback. How is this team weak?
Maybe you are talking about the women's teams. You still have Carrie (only 2004 Olympian at 1,500m), Blake Russell (who is running the best of her life right now). In the women's 4k they have medal potential as well with several sub 15:25 5k runners! On the women's long course team, McGregor (US Champion on the track and world team qualifier on the track), Metivier (a top US Cross Runner for 2-3 years now), Slattery (former Gordon) is now coming into her own post collegiately and has the looks to go with it, and then I guess Sharon Dickie is just not that good either, since she got married? You are really an assho.. with this weak team crap.
Are you the same guys who wanted Meb to run the 10k at the Olympics where he would have be completely embarrassed and maybe lapped in the final 1k when Bekele dropped it to 53 on the last quarter around Meb's PR pace. Grow up, Meb did the right thing and is now a marathoner. Alan and Meb don't run cross because they would get beat by these young guns. On the women's side there are two missing big time 8k runners, Elva and Deena, and in the 4k Amy Rudolph. They may all be training for something bigger. The men's 4k would have the best possible 6 if Broe was healthy, that is it. So let these kids do a great job and shut the fu.. up, IDIOT!
I agree with half of your post. The 4k team is possibly the best we've ever had. Gouch, Hall, Dobson, and Torres all went 13:20 or faster on the track last year. Lincoln has a 7:40 pr to his credit. All five have shown they can run cross country very well at the national level. Watson, sure why not as a 6th man. The team could be better with Broe, Webb, or Lagat on there, but it's still very solid as is.
However give me a break with the 12k - you know it's weak as hell. The only guy on there who has done anything is Ritz, and he's barely made a blip on the radar screen. Plus his performances recently have been questionable. King, Hartmann, Gabrielson, Leslie, Dennis - no names, all of them. At least at the national level, and especially at the international level. I agree with the original poster that this team is pathetic.
Culpepper rarely runs cross country, and Meb hasn't done it lately, so there's no point in waiting for them. The "Hall hasn't done anywhere near as much as Ritz" thing is ridiculous; not only is Hall now a sub-13:20 5k guy, but....he beat a very strong field in the 12k by 27 seconds.
Since Eritrea now fields strong teams along with Kenya and Ethiopia, a team medal would be tough ...but the 4k squad has a shot.
I believe defeat makes a person a better runner. Would you be bashing El G for losing two olympic 1500 meters. This made him a better runner. I think the glory of victory tastes much better when one has felt defeat!! Someone may fail over and over again, but it is all worth it when you accomplish something great.
Mtn Dew wrote:
Apparently Ritz has a lot of bad days. Or maybe he's just not as great as people think he is. I can list a lot more disappointments from him than successes.
with the exception of an inability to understand his body enough to avoid injuries, which im pretty sure everyone accepts...i would absolutely love to see you do that...for me, i will try
big ritz races throughout his career
13:43 in HS-good day
4th at NCAA XC as a freshman-good day
13:27 as a freshman-good day
was hurt for a year
NCAA XC champion off of very limited training beating ryan hall-good day
27:38 setting the collegiate record and debuting with the same time as Bob Kennedy-good day
2nd at NCAA 5000 against a 13:13 guy and dominating teg and solinsky in ridiculous heat and humidity slowing the times-okay day
you can throw the trials and olympics in but it think its pretty obvious that he just started those races to get the experience without really planning to race...did anyone expect anything different?
Belfast XC winning in europe over decent squad of kenyans putting a rare american name on top-good day
Worlds XC-bad day (yeah we finally have one)
8:22 2 mile in big matchup against webb (under his distance)-okay day
Commanding win at USA XC-good day
13:22 5000 dominating Jorge-good day
3rd at belfast this year-ok day
4th againt the big guns smokin the the euro xc champ-good day
USA XC champs-bad day (jesus christ 2!!!)
so work with that ration dumbass
hes not invincible but hes pretty frikin good
yeah-huh wrote:
King, Hartmann, Gabrielson, Leslie, Dennis - no names, all of them. At least at the national level, and especially at the international level. I agree with the original poster that this team is pathetic.
WHICH IS WHY YOU HAVE GOTTEN OFF YOUR LAZY BUTT TO GO OUT AND DO THE TRAINING AND BEAT THESE NO NAMES????? I would rather be a no name who has a chance to be on a national team than a keyboard puncher who best times have come from how fast they can type. Sorry, but, I am sick of tired of all you people who just can't accept things for what they are and try to help change them, instead, have to bash those that have done more than many of us ever did, myself included.
brentA wrote:
I don't understand. Why are we always bashing our fellow American runners when we should be supporting them?
People on here enjoy bashing Acosta, Blood, Rupp, Withrow, or whoever else has a "bad" race. I don't see the Kenyan's bashing there young runners, instead they embrace and support them.
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