Smoking bans in bars & restaurants - fair?

Using that same logic, a bar owner can serve alcohol to a minor. This would be against the social norm as well as being illegal. Smoking indoors in now moving into the category of against the social norm (at least to those who oppose it) and illegal.

Yes.

Wrong, if we don't stop it here, something much more terrible is gonna happen, they are gonna force the PGA to let women play

I think it's legit. They won't let me walk into Wal-Mart carrying a bottle of my favorite liquor; smoking's not a lot different. I don't think even Wal-Mart owners can change that rule.

Also, if some bars make the rule, that may make them look bad to a lot of their (smoking) customers. This prevents them from having to set the rules themselves; they can just say "Look, we're sorry but it's a state law" or whatever.

say my name b!tch wrote:

Using that same logic, a bar owner can serve alcohol to a minor. This would be against the social norm as well as being illegal. Smoking indoors in now moving into the category of against the social norm (at least to those who oppose it) and illegal.

I thought the part about owners setting the rules implied that they'd set legal rules, but I guess I have to be more specific. Smoking is legal (over a certain age). It's legal in private residence, but not in a private business? Just doesn't make sense to me.

If I'm a business owner and I want to enforce a dress code, I can. If I want to discriminate against males and charge them a cover while I let ladies get free admission, I can. But I can't allow you to do something within my four walls that you can do right outside on the sidewalk? Makes no sense to me.

kartelite wrote:

I think it's legit. They won't let me walk into Wal-Mart carrying a bottle of my favorite liquor;

Would you simply be carrying it or drinking? If you're just carrying it, I think they will let you in. If you're drinking it and Walmart doesn't allow it, I assume it's for 1 of 2 reasons

1) it's illegal - open container laws, having a liquor license, etc...which personally I think are silly laws as well that don't make much sense or

2) Walmart policy - if you can't carry booze in for that reason, then you agree that private businesses should be allowed to set certain guidelines

bending your girlfriend over a bench in the privacy of her home is legal, but you can't do that at your local TGI Fridays.

Liberty guy wrote:

However, when you really think about it, is it fair to ban a legal activity like smoking in a private establishment? If we're talking public spaces, yes, I think smoking should be banned because that space is for use by the general public. However, in a private business where the owner sets the rules, shouldn't he or she be able to decide what goes?

Welcome to the modern state. A smoking ban is just one of dozens (maybe hundreds) of public regulations with which that owner must comply. Just to name a few: if the restaurant owner wants to pay his dishwashers $3/hr and the dishwashers are voluntarily willing to work for that wage, the owner is prohibited from entering into that private contract because of minimum wage laws. If the owner wants to build an extension onto his restaurant that doesn't satisfy local or state seismic standards, he will be prohibited from modifying his property. If the owner is a white supremacist who only wants to serve food to white people in his private business, he is prohibited from acting on that preference by federal civil rights laws. If the owner gets rid of his oil waste by dumping it into a stream that runs through his private property, he will be subject to fines and imprisonment for violating various federal and state regulations.

Looked at in the context of other modern regulations, there is nothing unusual about a smoking ban. The owner of a business simply does not have an absolute right to do whatever he pleases simply because he owns the a private business.

When it's a matter of safety like smoking is I say no. Smoking has been proven to cause health problems due to 2nd hand smoke. Employees and others who go to these places should have a reasonable expectation to be safe from others habits. Yes you should be able to smoke in your own house but I'm waiting for the day that gets banned too because of the affects on the children and others in the house.

It is a little tricky and I hear what you're saying but I'm for the law banning smoking in bars and restaurants as it is now written.

It's a bunch of crap! I should be allowed to breathe smoke into my lungs and blow it out for you to breathe. I should be allowed to give you cancer. It's only fair. I should be allowed to cause your eyes to burn, sinuses to clog up with my smoke-transported bodily excretions....just as much as a Hepititus carrier should be able to take a shit in my mouth. It's only fair!

Liberty guy wrote:

However, when you really think about it, is it fair to ban a legal activity like smoking in a private establishment? If we're talking public spaces, yes, I think smoking should be banned because that space is for use by the general public. However, in a private business where the owner sets the rules, shouldn't he or she be able to decide what goes?

Masturbation is totally legal. I'm not allowed to walk into a public place, drop my pants, a pinch one off every time I feel like it.

Nice try, but no, not funny

What's the difference in making smoking in bars illegal vs. restaurants. There are very few restaurants that still have smoking sections, yet you can sit there and drink if you want. Ban the crap out of it. If you want to smoke, go outside where people that choose not to don't have to breath it and smell like trash at the end of the night.

That really wasn't an attempt at humor. The original poster makes the argument that if an action is legal, it should be allowed at every place and time. I was just pointing out how rediculous this is, as many actions that are legal and acceptable in one time and place are not in another setting.

Well... wrote:

Masturbation is totally legal. I'm not allowed to walk into a public place, drop my pants, a pinch one off every time I feel like it.

He said private, not public.

He's also saying that he thinks that sort of thing SHOULD be legal if the bar owner says it's OK.

And I agree.

As long as I'm subsidizing the treatment of their self-inflicted health problems, yes, any ban is fair.

A private establishment such as a retaruant is a public place. Private as used in the original post refers to private ownership. Public as I used it refers to a place that is open to the general public. So yes, he did say "private", but we are talking about the same thing.

Smoking should either be outlawed or not, this pussy footing around the issue is asinine and infringes on private businesses. Most of these analogies you guys use are bogus. Masturbating in a restaurant? Well, that's the restaurant's decision not to allow you to do that, there are places where you can go and eat a meal and rub one out, they are called sex clubs. Private businesses should be treated as such, let them decide whether or not they want to ban smoking.

I think people that smoke should have to pay out the ass for health care. Right now around here it's like $20 a month extra. That's a joke.

As a musician who plays killer blues and classic rock 2-5 times a month in bars and restaurants and outdoor festivals, I am very glad to have the smoking bans. Many of the places observe the law, but not all do. The fine in Columbus is something like $200, so the bars (who break the law) rent ash trays for $1 to smokers and put the money in a "if we're fined" pot, and then they smoke like chimneys. Many neighborhood bars will never be fined.

I'm for poor people since I'm a Democrat, and basically, smoking hurts poor people the most. They have less education, fewer avenues to help them quit, fewer avenues to help them when they get sick, and many work in places like smoke filled bars and even if they aren't smokers, 8-10 hours a day in a smoke filled room is seriously bad for you.

So, fair for a city to ban smoking in public places (and as someone already said, a restaurant or a bar is a public place) -- you bet. Governments have to pick up the tab for uninsured people who end up lung cancer and spend the last 6 months of their lives in a hospital. Ban it ban it ban it. Sounds great to me.