OTQ is the slightly more serious hobbyjogger version of a BQ

Yeah, but USATF wants to hold the marathon trials separate from any other marathon. So kinda silly to put on a road race with only dozen people, if they made the standard 2:12 or whatever.

OP, your marathon PB is what exactly? If you don't like people pursuing goals and trying to achieve sh it that only a small percentage of the entire world population can achieve, maybe you should shut the f up and stop being a Debbie downer. Personally I don't care if a person is just trying to finish a marathon or achieve a OTQ time. I just want people to push themselves, so shouldn't we be encouraging?

Male cutoff time should be 2:11:53

The women’s is down to 2:37, clearly not world class, but it was a ridiculous 245.

They turned the Olympic Trials into a sub elite race.

OTQ hobby jogger myself. It’s true the marathon standard is easier than any of the track events. There will be approximately 200 men and 200 women that qualify for 2024. I wonder if the incentive to keep it more achievable is that it promotes the event. There will be more “local runner makes Olympic Trials” articles. It’s also likely that many of these athletes are heavily involved in their respective running scene which in turn could promote distance running overall. A more achievable standard May also makes it easier for younger track athletes to transition to the full, feel somewhat relevant, and stay in the sport longer trying to get better. True elite talents making a debut can also hit the standard while also continuing their training at a high level without extended downtime. If there was no 2:18 standard, then there would be a huge gap between the pros and elite hobby jobbers. Instead of regional marathons being won in 2:15-2:25, they would be won in 2:26-2:35.

…and that is the issue. Kids are only trying to run 63/ 218 and 72/ 237 which is the same as rec runners simply targeting AG BQ time minus 5 minutes. It is obvious that many in both groups are not pushing themselves, only striving for the minimum.

18-ish PR for 5k, I’d guess, 22:15 currently. No marathon yet I’d guess, because he’s convinced that distance is for slower, older hobbyjoggers and he’s detem8ned to go sub-19 again someday.

Going to add a point to this that I think is not made enough.

Hitting time standards in the marathon is a gamble - you train for months for a single shot, and the weather might be bad. The Boston Marathon was won in 2:15:58 in 2018. 2:18 is fast enough to keep the numbers manageable, but slow enough to make sure we get all the real contenders without them having to play games to hit the time.

Of course, this point has kind of lost its relevance with the Olympic standards being set at 2:08, which I really think is a shame. I’d love to see the sport move away from time standards to focus more on racing the course and conditions.

The Olympic Trials should be a subelite race. No city is going to want to host the trials, and put up with the expense and inconvenience of it, it all they get out of it is 50 runners between the two events and a few journalists. If you have 200-700 people starting the marathon, it's a big deal in their lives, their parents and sisters and husbands and wives and kids all go to the race too. Hotel rooms are filled. People eat. And on and on. I get the concern over traffic but they can be solved by having a wave start with 15 seconds between the waves. Same with the bottles. Have a B standard and anybody running under that standard, no bottles. Let it be a celebration of the sport. Doing so is good for the sport.

2:18 is not a joke even with super duper shoes. You had to be a decent runner in college.

^ lives to be offended

Oh, you're so edgy, man!

Maybe you should post your results, in order to justify your position of looking down on people who've "only" run 2:18 for the marathon.

my high school teammate got 42nd in the 08 trials, running a 2:20. he was thrilled/great performance for him. i was living in nyc and a bunch of our friends came in to watch the race/support him. he had basically no shot of making the olympic team, but had a strong race & ran a pr - was thrilled. why would that make you angry? it was a great experience for him & we were glad to be a tiny part of it.

You’re not wrong but you exaggerate. There is a world of difference between 2:50 and 2:18. This is not in the same league.

This is what it is all about. Good on you and your friends

The point is maybe true but the headline is garbage. Yes, 2:17 is weaker than the track standards. But you don't have the same constraints on the roads. The marathon trials can be used to help grow the sport/give distance runners something to chase post collegiately. Fwiw our track trials routinely let slower runners in to fill fields so there's that.

2:17 is not a complete joke. It's lightyears ahead of the fastest BQ time (sub-3). Tons of people could run 100mpw & never come close. You still have to be able to run 14:xx & sub-30 & then put in the miles to convert that to 26.2.

I have a friend who was ran the OT Marathon way back in the early 80's. He's old (like me) and much slower (like me) but it's very cool to tell the true Hobby Joggers and young runners that he was that good back in the day.

He's very humble about it and gets embarrassed when we bring it up.

WR is the slightly more serious hobbyjogger version of an OTQ

I have a question - given that the marathon is not a T&F event, what is USATF the governing body?