I’m prepping for a ‘thon so have been reading about some different fueling strategies. I found this runner’s world article , where Emma Bates says that she only takes UCAN Edge gels every 5k with zero extra fluid. She just tapes a gel to an empty bottle at each table. Each gel is about 20g carbs.
A unique hydration strategy (including a glass of wine the night before), plenty of hills, and knowing her “why“ got her to a 2:22:10 finish and personal best.
My body also doesn’t respond well to a lot of fluid so in my buildup I’ve just had SIS Isotonic gels (every 3 miles) when practicing fueling. Zero water. I generally do well in the heat and don’t sweat a ton, so I never really feel thirsty on runs (even on 22+ mile runs).
Is going zero extra fluid advised for a marathon if one doesn’t feel thirsty, only gels? Obviously it seems to work for Emma Bates. Has anyone else tried this? I am worried about HR drift with dehydration.
It works for Emma, doesn't mean it will work for you. Experiment with it
Fair. I have done up to 16 mile marathon effort at the end of a 22 mile long run, all with only SIS gels and no fluids, and felt fine. Just was wondering if anyone had any experiences in their own marathons as I have never completed the full marathon race before.
There is questions whether Emma Bates actually uses UCAN exclusively (OT 2024). I don't know if what you're saying is true, but regardless this is a terrible racing strategy. And putting aside the crappy product that UCAN is, having ZERO water makes ZERO sense. You are going to seriously undermine your performance potential by becoming severely dehydrated. Thirst levels doesn't mean you don't need water - it probably means you haven't practiced hydrating properly during training and you are low on sodium. Just drink some water FFS.
You are going to seriously undermine your performance potential by becoming severely dehydrated. Thirst levels doesn't mean you don't need water - it probably means you haven't practiced hydrating properly during training and you are low on sodium. Just drink some water FFS.
All available evidence indicates that this is false.
Drinking beyond what is necessary to avoid thirst has never been shown to improve performance in marathons, and it is frequently associated with gastrointestinal distress. Major marathon winners have been observed to lose approximately 9% of their body weight during the course of a marathon without any appreciable slowing. Moreover, the maximum rate of gastric emptying for most athletes at marathon pace isn's nearly sufficient to avoid dehydration. All elite athletes are severely dehydrated at the end of a marathon.
From personal experience running alongside elite females, they often offer me their bottles when they're done, and rarely have they had more than a few swigs first. I'd guess most of them have fewer than 12 oz per hour. There are a few athletes who you can tell are really making a point of getting down as much as they can, but it's obviously a chore, and they're not the norm.
Studies showing worse performance due to dehydration are mostly done in the lab, with athletes who were dehydrated before the exercise began. In actual races, with athletes who are not dehydrated to start, dehydration does not apprear to have any effect, at least at the marathon distance. (Obviously ultras and Ironman are different beasts entirely.)
It's not entirely clear why dehydration doesn't seem to matter much in marathons. It's been observed that a carboloaded athlete releases water stores as she burns her stored carbs, and that offsets dehydration to some extent. It's also possible that any impact of dehydration is offset by the reduced mass that the athlete has to carry, at least up to a point.
Anyway, I have a weak stomach and have never had any fluid in a marathon, nor have I ever been thirsty. I've also run big negative splits, and my PR exceeds what my 5k PR suggests I should be able to do, so I don't think I left much on the table, and I'm definitely not crashing and burning.
It's also worth noting that, being a top elite runner, she can finish a marathon in 2:22. She also has some fairly comfortable facilities and support pre-race that virtually none of us have (we're usually standing outside for up to a couple hours beforehand not including warm-up). If it takes you substantially longer to finish a marathon, then your (de)hydration during the race becomes a bigger concern for you than it might be for her.
Anyway, I have a weak stomach and have never had any fluid in a marathon, nor have I ever been thirsty. I've also run big negative splits, and my PR exceeds what my 5k PR suggests I should be able to do, so I don't think I left much on the table, and I'm definitely not crashing and burning.
I find that pretty amazing. I always considered myself a light sweater and someone who didn't drink a lot during races, but I certainly always drank at least a little every few miles in a marathon, even in cold weather. I did sometimes do longish training runs (15-18 miles) without water in cold weather with no apparent problems, but no water during a full-effort marathon sounds extreme.
I'm training for a marathon right now and even though I've run 11 or 12 (depends if ultra counts), I still question fueling strategies. I've never run a negative split and have always crashed the last 3-4 miles at least, even in my best races. I sweat a lot compared to most people I run with, but I also drink a lot of plain water throughout the day, which makes me think I should take more fluid, but also likely a lot more sodium than I have been during long efforts. I've generally taken 4-5 gels, but only swigged water at aid stations during a marathon. I've never really paid attention that different brands of gels actually have different amounts of carbs/sugar/sodium and that I should probably figure out what I specifically need. I didn't really want to be that obsessive about it, but then I recently saw a YouTube video of a guy who went from a 2:52 marathon to a 2:27 just by calculating his sweat rate and determining how much fluid and fuel he individually needed. He also switched to carrying his own during the race, something he (like most competitive runners) was opposed to in the past because of the extra weight, etc., but the difference it made in his performance was enough to change his mind. Of course there are other variables that can affect an improvement in race times, but this has really gotten my attention.
I'm trying out different brands of gels/chews, one of which is UCAN. My sister (also a marathon runner) swears by it. I tried the original powder mix a long time ago and didn't like the taste, but recently got the Edge gels. I tried one yesterday (10 miles) and had to take fluid + electrolytes and some GU Chomps on top of it because I was fading. Long story short, everyone is different.
I find that pretty amazing. I always considered myself a light sweater and someone who didn't drink a lot during races, but I certainly always drank at least a little every few miles in a marathon, even in cold weather. I did sometimes do longish training runs (15-18 miles) without water in cold weather with no apparent problems, but no water during a full-effort marathon sounds extreme.
How much do you think it adds up to, though? Say you're VERY conservatively losing 100 oz of fluid in a marathon, are you replacing even 25% of that while running? I'm not saying 25% is irrelevant, but if it's a choice between pretty dehydrated and only slightly less dehydrated, maybe it's not worth stressing about (at least for people like me who struggle to keep anything down).
This was never something I really planned; it was just that I was always breathing hard enough by the first aid station that trying to choke down water seemed tough. So I let it go because I felt okay, and I just kept feeling okay, so I never really felt like going for a cup.
Absolutely, and it's worth experimenting to find out what works for you.
FWIW, Steph, I don't think that crashing towards the end of a marathon is usually about fueling. Usually I think it's: (1) Picking a marathon pace that's slightly too fast. Unlike in shorter races, there's no backing off slightly to hang on when you've gone over the edge in a marathon; you're kinda screwed at that point. Sometimes you even picked the right pace, but your mistake is not adjusting it for weather or wind. If you already set an aggressive goal for yourself, you HAVE to change it when the weather is bad. (2) Running the right pace unevenly. It's super common to go too hard uphill, in particular, and this can add up to 15 or 20 minutes of lactate threshold running by the time you've hit 20 miles. That exacts a heavy toll. I'm actually convinced that the insane pace that people run the first mile of NYCM (straight up a mountain, basically) is responsible for a lot of the carnage later. (3) Being past your peak. Marathoners who peak early outnumber those who peak late by 9 to 1 in my experience. If you've been doing "prove it" workouts for 6 weeks already, your window to actually use that fitness is closing fast. (4) This isn't really a "mistake," and it's not absolutely mandatory, but hill training is decent insurance against the legs falling apart late in a marathon. Both hard uphills and hard downhills.
This post was edited 55 seconds after it was posted.
You are going to seriously undermine your performance potential by becoming severely dehydrated. Thirst levels doesn't mean you don't need water - it probably means you haven't practiced hydrating properly during training and you are low on sodium. Just drink some water FFS.
All available evidence indicates that this is false.
Drinking beyond what is necessary to avoid thirst has never been shown to improve performance in marathons, and it is frequently associated with gastrointestinal distress. Major marathon winners have been observed to lose approximately 9% of their body weight during the course of a marathon without any appreciable slowing. Moreover, the maximum rate of gastric emptying for most athletes at marathon pace isn's nearly sufficient to avoid dehydration. All elite athletes are severely dehydrated at the end of a marathon.
From personal experience running alongside elite females, they often offer me their bottles when they're done, and rarely have they had more than a few swigs first. I'd guess most of them have fewer than 12 oz per hour. There are a few athletes who you can tell are really making a point of getting down as much as they can, but it's obviously a chore, and they're not the norm.
Studies showing worse performance due to dehydration are mostly done in the lab, with athletes who were dehydrated before the exercise began. In actual races, with athletes who are not dehydrated to start, dehydration does not apprear to have any effect, at least at the marathon distance. (Obviously ultras and Ironman are different beasts entirely.)
It's not entirely clear why dehydration doesn't seem to matter much in marathons. It's been observed that a carboloaded athlete releases water stores as she burns her stored carbs, and that offsets dehydration to some extent. It's also possible that any impact of dehydration is offset by the reduced mass that the athlete has to carry, at least up to a point.
Anyway, I have a weak stomach and have never had any fluid in a marathon, nor have I ever been thirsty. I've also run big negative splits, and my PR exceeds what my 5k PR suggests I should be able to do, so I don't think I left much on the table, and I'm definitely not crashing and burning.
Thanks. How do you optimize start line hydration if it is important?
Thanks. How do you optimize start line hydration if it is important?
It doesn't take any special doing. In real life, people end up dehydrated because they're distracted and don't have easy access to fluids. Just keep a water bottle on you for the day or two before the race, and have a glass or two when you wake up. I'd be surprised if more than 1 in 1000 are insufficiently hydrated on the start line of a marathon. There's a reason those porta potty lines are so long.
It is possible that marathon participants, not necessarily racers, of the current era have been oversold on hydration. LRC posters may find some information in this book insightful. Noakes does spew controversial opinions and research, but this book makes valid points:
Noakes, Timothy. Waterlogged: The Serious Problem of Overhydration in Endurance Sports. Human Kinetics, 2012.
