Bob Kempainen greates U.S. marathoner of all time. That was born in the U.S. 2:08.47! Try to beat that Culpepper, Meb, Shay, Cox, Verran, etc.!
Bob Kempainen greates U.S. marathoner of all time. That was born in the U.S. 2:08.47! Try to beat that Culpepper, Meb, Shay, Cox, Verran, etc.!
I am a big fan of Bob K. Great marathoner who's true potential in the sport wasn't quite tapped, but I was also in the 2:08 race and we had a very nice tailwind that day. As much as I hate to admit it, I'm sure the winds had quite a bit to do with everyone's quick times in '94. I ran Boston 8 times and '94 was about a minute or more faster than any other year. Across the board that day, people were flying.
You also contradict yourself by stating "US born" in one sentence, then including Meb as one who can "try to beat that." I think most in the Boston field that day who ran fast times would trade that time in for a silver medal any day.
yes i remember watching that race on espn...
and the course record was broken that day by several men..
cosmas ndeti (sp)from kenya 2:07:xx
followed by andres espinosa (mex) 2:07;xx
Khannouchi, no contest, out.
I rather have the 2:08.47 time than a sliver medal in the olympics with the exception of gold. Silver, you are still a loser.
running freak is crazy wrote:
Bob Kempainen greates U.S. marathoner of all time. That was born in the U.S. 2:08.47! Try to beat that Culpepper, Meb, Shay, Cox, Verran, etc.!
Bob Kempainen greates U.S. marathoner of all time, 2:08.47! Try to beat that Culpepper, Meb, Shay, Cox, Verran, etc.!
say what or what not wrote:
I rather have the 2:08.47 time than a sliver medal in the olympics with the exception of gold. Silver, you are still a loser.
Not quite sure I understand your logic, since Kempainen's 2:08:47 performance was a 7th place finish.
Forgot to address the original topic earlier....
With all due respect to Kempainen, I can't agree with the premise. Buddy Edelen was a marathon world record holder. Frank Shorter won olympic gold and silver. Greg Meyer WON Boston with a 2:09:00. Al Salazar (born in Cuba) had more success at the distance and was just as fast. Bill Rodgers. Dick Beardsley.
running freak is crazy wrote:
Bob Kempainen greates U.S. marathoner of all time. That was born in the U.S. 2:08.47! Try to beat that Culpepper, Meb, Shay, Cox, Verran, etc.!
Forgot to address the original topic earlier....
With all due respect to Kempainen, I can't agree with the premise. Buddy Edelen was a marathon world record holder. Frank Shorter won olympic gold and silver. Greg Meyer WON Boston with a 2:09:00. Al Salazar (born in Cuba) had more success at the distance and was just as fast. Bill Rodgers. Dick Beardsley.
I do agree that Kempainen's accomplishments are better than those of Culpepper, Meb, Shay, Cox, Verran, to date.
running freak is crazy wrote:
Bob Kempainen greates U.S. marathoner of all time. That was born in the U.S. 2:08.47! Try to beat that Culpepper, Meb, Shay, Cox, Verran, etc.!
Forgot to address the original topic earlier....
With all due respect to Kempainen, I can't agree with the premise. Buddy Edelen was a marathon world record holder. Frank Shorter won olympic gold and silver. Greg Meyer WON Boston with a 2:09:00. Al Salazar (born in Cuba) had more success at the distance and was just as fast. Bill Rodgers. Dick Beardsley.
I do agree that Kempainen's accomplishments are better than those of Culpepper, Meb, Shay, Cox, Verran, to date.
Everyone runs faster at Boston when you catch it on a good day (cool, tailwind). Even the big guns back in the 1980s ran two minute PRs there. Did Bill Rodgers ever break 2:10 away from Boston, and how many times did he break 2:11 away from there? Not many. Kempainen's race there, while commendable, was dubious.
blaine wrote:
I do agree that Kempainen's accomplishments are better than those of Culpepper, Meb, Shay, Cox, Verran, to date.
Although I'm not much of a Meb fan, I really don't see Bob K.'s marathon accomplishments as being anywhere close to Meb's, whose two performances in NYC were almost certainly better than Bob K.'s BAA performance, and whose Olympic silver is far above any achievement of Bob K. in world-class marathoning.
I think that the best U.S. marathoner, by far, has been KK. The best U.S.-born marathoner? That's tough, since it eliminates KK, Al Sal, Meb, Plaajes, and Shorter. Maybe Bob K. is worthy of consideration, along with a bunch of others.
Kempainen was awesome for sure, and I agree that he probably didn't reach his RUNNING potential, but he had lots of irons in the fire, and seems like a pretty impressive person overall, and maybe that was his ultimate goal, so great for him.
I agree.
Ok if you don't want to count Kannouchi then I'll say Kempainen was the greatest US marathoner that isn't named Kannouchi of the last 20 years. He doesn't get much attention but his record was impressive. Debuted at Twin Cities in 91 finishing second in 2:12. Ran 2:12 to make the Olympic team behind Spence and Eyestone in 92 and finished 18th(?) in Barcelona.
Won LA marathon in 2:11. Ran 2:11-2:12 at New York to get 2nd or 3rd. Had the big 2:08:47 at wind-aided Boston.
Crushed everyone the last 5k at the trials in 96.
He had a solid career but didn't have the major championship medal like Spence and Meb. And don't forget Mark Platjes who won the World Championship. A lot of people forget him too. He also had a 2:08 pr when he was South African. But to call Kempainen the greatest ever?
I would say Shorter number one
He won the big one, got another medal in Montreal of silver, won the most compative marathon at the time, Fukuoka at least twice, probably more, and New York before it got huge.
KK is hard for me. His win in London against Tergat and Geb should be the greatest US marathon accomplishment ever. For that he should probably be first, but the world views the Olympics as the ultimate and unless you do something there I can't view that as earning the top ranking.
Bill Rodgers was the man from 75-80. Hurt at Montreal but shortly came back to defeat Shorter at New York. Boycott in 80. But that guy ran nearly 20 2:11's I'm I right. And won many Boston's, New Yorks, and other marathons around the world. He beat the best at the world at the time more than twice. His career accomplishments puts him next.
Edelen had the World Record. He's next.
I'd go with Salazar next-three New York wins, a Boston win, 2:08 twice, and 2:09 three times.
Don't forget Clarence Demarr. He's got to be up there.
After that you have a half dozen guys which are hard to rank either way. Spence was the dominate American in the early 80's and finished 3rd at Worlds. Beardsley ran a slew of top times for his day, won London, the great race with Salazar. Meb earned his mention with this group for the silver medal in one race. Kempainen is somewhere with these guys.
Then you have Moore, Kardong, Greg Meyer, the guy named Jerry Lawson(2:09 twice), Bob Hodge, Fleming, Durden, Tabb, Virgin (for his 79 Boston alone), Pfitzinger, and Platjes.
Culpeppar and any other American who competed after 1983 can fill in the large group next.
Bob Kempainen was a helluva guy and he came along in a very fallow period in American marathoning. But whoever said his accomplishments surpass Meb's is just not paying attention. Meb was second and third in NYC in consecutive years, which is not shabby. Plus...there's that Olympic silver medal, which for some reason people are seriously devaluing.
As for Shorter, what's often overlooked is that in addition to his Olympic gold and silver, he won Fukuoka four or five times (I forget which) at a time when that was recognized as the unofficial marathon world championship.
A 2:08:47 by Kempainen was nice. But it was for 7th place, with a tailwind. Cmon already.
I think everyone is forgetting about the runner who could have been the best ever if that was his goal.
Tony Sandoval was 5'8" and only 112 lbs. VO2 was 82 with a resting heartrate of 36. Grew up and trained at altitude. Had 1:49.5 800 and 4:02 mile speed. Ran a 2:19 first marathon.
"I was averaging 35 miles a week training then," says Sandoval. "I wanted to go to the Marathon Trial in Eugene and you had to run under 2:20 to have your way paid there, so that's what I ran"
Ran 2:14:58 to get 4th at the 76 trials. Ran sporadically the next 3 years while in medical school with a 2:15 at Boston. One week leading to the race was only 19 miles.
Took a leave from medical school to train full time for the 80 trials. In the summer of 79 ran 2:10:20 at Eugene and won the 80 trials in 2:10:19. With the boycott, went back to school and never trained full time again.
I don't know what his mileage was the year he trained full time and ran 2-2:10's but what could he have run with a few years of full time training?
My info was from The Runner oct, 1980. Here is a more recent article from Marc Bloom.
http://www.theharrier.com/marcbloomrunning/worldclassrunners/sandoval.php
mr cripple wrote:
I think everyone is forgetting about the runner who could have been the best ever if that was his goal.
That's just great.
He wasn't.
How about Alberto Salazar? He ran only 5 seconds slower (2:08:52) on that same Boston course, only on a day that was warm (something like 75°) without a tailwind. He also made an Olympic team, set a world record (since retroactively removed but still...) Won NYC twice.
I admire Bob Kempainen as a runner and as a person. But I was at that 1994 Boston race. The tailwind was so strong that day that a runner would take a drink at the 5K mark, drop the cup on the ground, and the cup was beating them to the finish line. Boy I wish I would have run Boston that day. But you can't use that 1 Boston race to measure a marathoner.