How come women runners being lapped never move out of lane 1?

This is a legitimate observation that is confirmed in other sports too. This can be witnessed in trail running, skimo, and XC mountain biking too. There seems to be either a lack of awareness or a certain sense of entitlement that becomes apparent when a faster athlete wants to pass some female athletes. At least on the track there is a way around these blockers...in the other sports there can be limited spots to pass at will. In track though, it can be a little risky if they suddenly move out while being passed on the outside.

Another observation that might confirm the "lack of awareness" theory used to be displayed was watching Brenda Martinez run 800 races. ...it used to be almost a guarantee that her 800 races would be an absolute mess of collisions and pushing and tripping with her consistently being the main culprit.

Watching many gals try to back a trailer or try and parallel park further confirms this lack of spatial awareness. ...add entitlement, and you get Sloppy Karen's.

OK, I started to type this exact thread but didn't follow through because I wasn't sure I had enough evidence. I had just watched the 10,000 meters in the this Worlds.

In the men's race, an Ethiopian is lapped and goes out to lane three. Two more athletes are lapped when the leaders are on the backstretch of the bell lap. They both go out to lane three or wide in lane two. One more guy is lapped with about 150 to go. Out to lane three he goes, even around the corner.

In the women's race, with about 425 to go the whole field has to separate to go around a woman who gives up a bit of an inside lane but does not go far enough out to let the field through. I actually think she did the worst thing possible. It would be better to hug the rail than to make the field split around you, with legs going everywhere. She looked back a few times, knew she was about to be lapped by the whole group at once but only moved onto the lane one line.

With 200 to go and several women in the lead pack and winding up to sprint, they had to go around a woman into the turn because she won't move out. She had to know they were coming but held the rail. Who makes the lead pack swing wide on the corner to go around you when you are 600 meters behind them?

I'd like to look at more races but the question seems fair.

I’ve been taught never to move out if being lapped. The runner coming from behind can see you and make adjustments to go around. You shouldn’t be able to see them. Seen collisions when a runner was trying to be nice and move out, never when they just kept their line.

Yeah, that might apply in the 3200 in a high school meet, but at the World Championships or Olympics, it's a different game.

The athletes know they are going to be lapped. Particularly on the bell lap, with the noise of the bell and the crowd, and they often can see what is happening on the big screens at the ends of the stadium.

They need to move out, like WAY out, and do it early enough that the leaders can never get confused about who is going where. I mean, when the leaders are still 50 meters back, they need to get their butts out into lane three and stay there until at least the entirety of the lead pack goes through, then they can move into lane two. Nobody lapping them after that should ever have to come off the rail.

We've been over this a million times.

Not moving out is the right thing to do. If nobody moves out then there's no confusion.

It isn't "confusion". By not moving out they are an obstruction to the leaders when they are not involved in that part of the race. But they make themselves involved, by forcing the leaders to run wider than they otherwise would have to. That can make quite a difference on the bends, when the leaders can be chasing each other towards the finish. I have watched lapped runners at that stage and often thought they were as much of an obstacle as someone who just ran across from out of the stands. Lack of self-awareness or concern for other competitors.

The only time moving out/not moving out becomes an issue is when one person moves out and another doesn't, or someone moves out too late.

None of this is any issue if nobody moves out.

I'm guessing most of the people crying about people not moving out don't have a whole lot of first hand experience of lapping people, as someone who has, it's far far easier if nobody moves out. It takes nothing just to overtake someone, even when there's a few in the lead group.

Dead wrong.

The best thing to do is:

1) Move wide. Better yet, move very wide.

2) Do it early enough that it is clear as can be that you have moved very wide and the entire rail side is available to a pack of runners.

Don't envision yourself as the lapped runner. See it through the eyes of the leaders. You are 50 meters back of a runner and gaining fast, as you wind up toward a sprint. That runner, LONG before you get to them, moves out to lane three or even lane four. And they stay out there. Of course that is what you and the lead pack would want, and what you deserve.

Since when is it not right to move out? This has been common courtesy for decades. In fact I thought it was a rule. I too was shocked the first time I saw the ill mannered and clueless runner stay in lane 1 when the whole field was lapping her. Just disrespectful

There isn't a right or wrong. Lapping athletes, I'd expect them to not move out - they are focused on their race, not what is behind them. If they move out, k great - but it will probably slow me more since I'm expecting to go around them on the outside. The top athletes are all used to lapping people and don't spend time agonizing over it. They are not going to whine that going around an athlete cost them .2 secs or whatever. Now if an athlete is getting lapped below the 5000, they prob shouldn't be in the race, but that is another story.

I've been in the position of the leaders many times (have you?).

Of course it's easier if all lapped runners are out in lane four, but that's never going happen, they're still running their own races even if the armchairs think they're just wasting space.

Your problem is you're not living in reality. You're not going to get every lapped runner to be aware all of the time, if one moves out and another doesn't, then you've got problems. The worst one is when they see you at the last minute and move out in panic when you've already committed to going around them.

Nobody moves out, absolutely no problem. It's common sense, but it's tough to see if you've never been in the situation.

First, yes, I have been in that situation many times, so you can drop that condescending point.

However, even someone who has never ran a race in their lives can figure this out:

Does going around someone, especially on a corner, slow the lead runner down?

Yes.

Does going around people present a risk of tangled legs and tripping?

Yes.

If lapped runners are in lane four, does the lead runner have a chance to run the fastest time possible while also avoiding physical contact?

Yes.

I'm not going to go back and forth after that. You're wrong and that's just how it is.

EDIT TO ADD:

When in that situation, and running in second, there is the opportunity to start to pass the leader as you come up on the back of the lapped runner, forcing the lead running to slow radically as you have them hemmed in. You can use the lapped runner to interfere with the leader, as a strategy. As someone who has encountered these situations, I imagine you are aware of that tactic. You can't have that happen if the lapped runner is in lane three or four where they belong.

If you’re getting lapped, you suck and should just drop out. (Klecker I’m talking to you).

Were you one of those guys who literally shouted at lapped runners if they didn't get out of his majesty's way? Now those were the worst of all.

Women have higher verbal IQs; men have higher visuospatial IQs on average.

Watch this men's 5000 last 600m from the U20 WC:

The embedded link is timestamped at 09:30, but if it starts at the beginning just go there manually.

As a person passing runners, all I wanted was predictability. As long as I knew what they were going to do well in advance I don’t care.

Problem is, as a runner who has also been lapped, I have no idea what’s going on behind me. Even in the stadium, it’s not like I’m watching the screens, and as a person there, they weren’t really broadcasting the race in a way that helped lapped runners.

The fact that there’s a debate means just stay to your line.

I'm aware that obviously you could use a lapped runner to box someone in.

It's not something I ever thought of doing myself, and I can't recall seeing it being done at all, at least not deliberately.

Was it something you did often? When you did it, weren't you worried the leader might push out and take you down? I'm guessing you were prepared for that.

That last 600 was a sh1tshow. All of those runners should have moved out.