Pose Method of Training?

i also, would like to know more... could someone explain the faults in the method, perhaps a pros and cons comparison or somethin'? thanks yo.

I as well have absolutely no clue what this pose thing is. All I know is that it has to do with form or something. People keep talkin bout it so it'd be nice to understand wtf they are talkin bout.

Some of what is wrong with Pose. In general, it just doesn't follow Newton's laws or biomechanics.

I've watched some of the Pose videos on the site, and his ideas on push off are wrong. There pretty much off base with how correct running form should be based on his video.

Also, his ideas on pulling the support foot from the ground are completely wrong. The support foot pushes off and thus initiates a stretch reflex on the leg. This stretch reflex causes the leg and knee to cycle through without conscious control. If you try and concsiously cycle the leg/knee through the recovery phase it will actually cycle through SLOWER.

if you cut the push off short like what is advertised in the pose method, then you aren't utilizing your stretch reflex correctly. When this isn't done, that means slower recovery of the leg. You pose people try and do this by forcing the leg through, unfortunately that's slower than it would be if there was a stretch reflex.

To use one of my favorite examples ever. Correct runners are pulling the sling shot back as far as it can and then letting it go. Cutting the push off short and trying to force the recovery through is like pulling the sling shot back and instead of letting it go with the hand, you use your hand to try and push it forward. Result, rock doesn't go that far with your assistance.

Here's a short article on it:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1608/is_9_19/ai_106652958

From what I can tell, he basicaly took "forefoot" running and gave it a new name.

Although I do think it is a valid technique, I have to agree somewhat with the previous poster. What this guy says *is* contardictory to Newton's laws. "Leaning forward," will NOT make you run faster. Your *legs* make you run faster. If all it took was leaning forward then we'd all ride engineless forward leaning cars to work.

I agree, although I don't think most of us who learned forefoot running--or came by it naturally--got there by "falling forward" or not pushing after footstrike. To me, the whole Pose thing reads like a bluebrint for wasting energy.There is a whole group of people who do, indeed, successfully fall forward. We're called sprinters. Just get into a starting block, pick up your hands, and see what happens. The problem is that this works great for the first 60 meters, but that's as far as a human can produce power rapidly enough to continue accelerating, and after that point the running economy of anyone trying to fall forward sucks, period. Unfortunately, distance runners try to go a little longer than 60 meters, but if you try to do it leaning forward, you're running economy is going to suck, too.Here's part of the scientific evidence that Pose doesn't work--and unlike Dr. Romanov, I'll produce a real research citation to back up my point--which I have posted before:

From Dr. Michael Yessis:

Now, why would I want to teach my kids (or myself) how to be less efficient? Until someone provides some objective evidence that stands up to examination, showing that POSE works better than standard technique for serious athletes, I simply conclude that this is just another piece of snake oil garbage fostered onto the running public.

If there was any reason to consider POSE, you would see it discussed in the USATF Level-II/III materials, as is the case for Veronique Billat's vVO2max work. Until/unless this happens, ALL coaches should ignore it.

Speed Kills wrote:

J Sports Sci. 2005 Jul;23(7):757-64.

Effect of a global alteration of running technique on kinematics and economy.

Dallam GM, Wilber RL, Jadelis K, Fletcher G, Romanov N.

Is the N. Romanov of this study, the N. Romanov of

? Is it possible - he's found out his method doesn't work?

runningalotofmiles,

Now that you have heard from some of the narrow minded skeptics, I will give you some first hand perspective from someone who is running using the technique as well as teaching it to others. I just recently began a level I certified Pose Method coach. And I am very excited about teaching others to run most efficiently. Most of the basic information about the Method is on the website

www.posetech.com

. If you would like to ask me some specific question please email me at my hotmail account.

Thank you. I will be looking at the web site and if I have any questions I'll send you an e-mail.

Thanks again.

With all due respect, JH, the descriptor "narrow minded skeptics" doesn't adequately characterize what Speed Kills presents. He is indeed correct in drawing attention to the fact that he has backed up his skepticism in the way that scientists do that: by citing a controlled scientific experiment. That's the opposite of narrow minded. It's classic empiricism, in fact--it's what the Enlightenment taught us to do in the face of religious faith and high priests (and Pose Method instructors) who engage in winks, nods, and mystification.

I'm quite willing to believe that Speed Kills doesn't have the whole story. I've been experimenting myself with forward lean and shortened stride, after reading Thomas Miller's PROGRAMMED TO RUN, which is cousin to the Pose Method. But in order to convince me that you're engaging in something other than mystification, you'll need to fight empiricist fire with empiricist fire.

Speed Kills's citation is pretty convincing. Can you explain what's wrong with that particular study? Or can you cite other controlled experimental studies that offer scientific justification for the Pose Method? I suspect you can. You'll need to work a little harder to convince me. I'm willing to be convinced.

My objective has not been to convince every skeptic to believe in the Pose Method of running. I am simply giving advice to those who would like to get more out of their running than they have experienced up this point in their lifes. Dr. Romanov has been researching/testing/refining/teaching this technqiue for over 25 years. If people want to learn and understand this technique all they need to do is apply themselves. If you would care for some other advice feel free to contact me by phone or email. Thanks!

KR has a very good point. I, too, would be interested in hearing some data....or even some personal testimony. So far all I've heard are advertisements similar to that of the "mega-memory" guy.

Sorry, that was a low blow.....I just wanted to throw that dig in there ; )

But seriously, give us something convincing.

Here are some pretty good guys who use POSE (they just don't name the method). Most Africans use POSE.

Everybody in this race is using POSE (it happens to be the Olympic 5000 final).

Their POSE would be even more perfect if they didn't get free heavily cushioned shoes from shoe companies.

MNapologist wrote:

Most Africans use POSE.

I was wondering how they got so fast.

MNapologist wrote:

Everybody in this race is using POSE (it happens to be the Olympic 5000 final).

Their POSE would be even more perfect if they didn't get free heavily cushioned shoes from shoe companies.

Bekele's right calf looks very relaxed. Probably using his hamstring to "pull" right now.

Great running form though in all.

Whether or not it allows you to run faster, at least for me, it took a lot of stress off of my constantly injured legs, enabled me to almost double my mileage last cross country season and drop 2.5 minutes off of my 8k as a result. IF you're always injured it's worth a shot.

I have a friend who has a Ph.D in physics - and he has some good laughs at the "physics" that Doc Romanov ascribes to his technique. One would think that in 25 years that he would clean up his science schtic a bit more so that he could hock his program in a more refined manner.

The africans don't "use Pose."

Bekele, Geb, EL Guerrouj, Kipketer, etc. They all run the way that is taught by the best running form/ biomechanics coaches in the world, not the Pose method. There form has been analzyed to death by certain coaches which I have talked to and the africans are not doing the things that are recommended in the Pose method.

The only thing they have in common is the footstrike is flat on the ground basically under the center of gravity. That's it. They do not pull with the hamstring or lift their leg up or fall forward.

They push off the ground and extend their hip to go faster. Pose doesn't recommend this. Pose cuts this motion off which causes a whole slew of problems.

I've talked with biomechanics experts and to coaches who have coached world record holders on the subject of running form. All agreed with me on the above mentioned fallacies of the Pose method and pointed out that none of the top sprinters or distance runners run the way the Pose guy recommends. Some even went as far as getting out video of Carl Lewis, Wilson Kipketer, El Guerrouj, Coe, Steve Ovett, and many others and broke the video down frame by frame to show exactly what they were doing. In concluding, it wasn't pose.

So don't say the africans use Pose, they don't. Sure the foot hits the same way, but that's it. Watch the Africans leg drive and push off face, it's not cut short like in Pose. They extend their hips all the way back.

Pose guy is just trying to reinvent the wheel in a crazy way.

Please go read some biomechanics or expert running form coaches literature or hell even Newton's laws before you make such false claims.

The africans don't "use Pose."

Bekele, Geb, EL Guerrouj, Kipketer, etc. They all run the way that is taught by the best running form/ biomechanics coaches in the world, not the Pose method. There form has been analzyed to death by certain coaches which I have talked to and the africans are not doing the things that are recommended in the Pose method.

The only thing they have in common is the footstrike is flat on the ground basically under the center of gravity. That's it. They do not pull with the hamstring or lift their leg up or fall forward.

They push off the ground and extend their hip to go faster. Pose doesn't recommend this. Pose cuts this motion off which causes a whole slew of problems.

I've talked with biomechanics experts and to coaches who have coached world record holders on the subject of running form. All agreed with me on the above mentioned fallacies of the Pose method and pointed out that none of the top sprinters or distance runners run the way the Pose guy recommends. Some even went as far as getting out video of Carl Lewis, Wilson Kipketer, El Guerrouj, Coe, Steve Ovett, and many others and broke the video down frame by frame to show exactly what they were doing. In concluding, it wasn't pose.

So don't say the africans use Pose, they don't. Sure the foot hits the same way, but that's it. Watch the Africans leg drive and push off face, it's not cut short like in Pose. They extend their hips all the way back.

Pose guy is just trying to reinvent the wheel in a crazy way.

Please go read some biomechanics or expert running form coaches literature or hell even Newton's laws before you make such false claims.