Jack Daniels says do 20 min at threshold for 5K. Does this still apply for someone(girls) running 2 mile races for XC? Or should these girls be doing something different that is more beneficial?
Sure, although make sure they don't run too hard. Daniels threshold pace can be difficult. Better to do it a bit slower, or broken into shorter sections like 4x5minutes. Or substitute progression run -- easy first half, then slowly increase speed as they feel good. It should be fun and not difficult.
Sure, although make sure they don't run too hard. Daniels threshold pace can be difficult. Better to do it a bit slower, or broken into shorter sections like 4x5minutes. Or substitute progression run -- easy first half, then slowly increase speed as they feel good. It should be fun and not difficult.
+1
What age? We run 3k for middle school, and we do "tempo" style workouts as 1k repeats with short rest (60-90s). Tempo/threshold takes some time to learn how to find the right pace and manage it throughout. By breaking it up, runners have a margin of error. If they run the first one too hard, they can adjust going forward, rather than just slogging through because they went too deep at the beginning.
Sure, although make sure they don't run too hard. Daniels threshold pace can be difficult. Better to do it a bit slower, or broken into shorter sections like 4x5minutes. Or substitute progression run -- easy first half, then slowly increase speed as they feel good. It should be fun and not difficult.
+1
Most HS runners or younger aren't aerobically developed and don't have a good sense of pacing. It turns a lot of 20:00-30:00 tempos into race-like efforts. I would figure out what their threshold is from their PBs but then add 5-15s/mile (have them start on the easier end of the adjusted pace range & cut down). Do the session someplace where you can monitor the workout & make sure it's under control.
the occasional 20 minute tempo is fine, but better to break the work up into cruise intervals--as Daniels likes to call them.
Yes, that has been my experience. 4 x 5 min allows a titration for those who can only do 2 or 3. I am referring to both MS and HS. If you tell them to do 20 min (or even 10 in my experience), you get the good motivated kids doing it right, but everyone else slowing down to a jog (MS mainly). Now and then, you can go Ingebrit on them and do 10 x 2 min. This will be faster, super short rest but still ends up threshold. Dialing that in is hard, they run too fast. Of course keeping all this to time instead of distance means you can just blow the heck out of your whistle at 5 min and they all stop the rep together, walk back to S/F, and ready to go again in 60 sec. If they recover too long you have given away a good percentage of the threshold. 4 x 5 min goes quick, you got to slow down the fast ones and encourage the slow ones. Also, if someone belly aches, have them take one off. Otherwise they just run all 4 at slow jog.
And im sure everyone would say "yes" this a great way to build the troops in a fairly low stress way. However you do it.
Sure, although make sure they don't run too hard. Daniels threshold pace can be difficult. Better to do it a bit slower, or broken into shorter sections like 4x5minutes. Or substitute progression run -- easy first half, then slowly increase speed as they feel good. It should be fun and not difficult.
+1
Most HS runners or younger aren't aerobically developed and don't have a good sense of pacing. It turns a lot of 20:00-30:00 tempos into race-like efforts. I would figure out what their threshold is from their PBs but then add 5-15s/mile (have them start on the easier end of the adjusted pace range & cut down). Do the session someplace where you can monitor the workout & make sure it's under control.
Well yes there is that. There are the ones who cant even run 20min straight. But, i guess for them they just run it as a "long run" building their base. But again, thats why we like 4 x 5 min, 5 x 4min.....
This is interesting. Is there an explanation as to why Daniels’ threshold pace is considered too fast? I know there are multiple online calculators and I have noticed they vary. McMillian’s seems on the fast side, but Schwartz’s seems like it’s slower. And you say Daniels’ is fast. I actually haven’t used his as much. I’ve used Schwartz’s in the past.
Totally -- thought I added something into my post affirming that. I like breaking up tempos. A lot of adult runners do a standard 20:00 tempo run. Would always suggest breaking up a session like that to build volume. 3:00-5:00 reps on short rest to get to 30:00. But we're talking about HSers (or under?) here so it might be a challenge just to get to 20:00. Maybe a straight or broken tempo of 10:00-15:00 to start.