Why are NCAA 10,000s run in super shoes like Vaporflys allowed to count for World Athletics rankings?

I'm only half joking when I say this: does world athletics, in 2023, care about a 28:00 male or 32:00 female? They're laughable times.

On a serious note, maybe world athletics defers to the NCAA rules?

They're not "laughable" but they're so far away from being competitive in a world championships. The gap between a 26:30 and 28:00 runner is as big as the gap between a 28:00 and 40:00 (or greater) runner

I thought that there was a spot check on shoes rule that the NCAA & USATF (and indirectly World Athletics) agreed to. If there was, where does the paperwork go after the meet if an official finds an athlete wearing an illegal (i.e. Vaporfly in a 5 or 10k) shoe in a meet--does it get turned in to the meet director, the timing company, is it thrown in a folder with the rest of the results?

Rojo might work for Nike at this point. Shoes don’t work bruh

At the last USTFCCCA meeting there was a lot of concern within the NCAA coaches community that NCAA meets will no longer be able to count for qualifying for the US Championships and World Championships, but it's stuff like this that seems to be the problem. If the NCAA doesn't conform to WA and USATF rules then that's exactly what's going to happen. The NCAA needs to conform to the WA standards and that includes foot wear and it needs to be enforced by the NCAA. It's not up to WA to have to go and review every result and every athlete's shoes, if that continues to be an issue then WA will surely just drop all NCAA results from their rankings, which likely means NCAA results will no longer be able to be used for qualifying for the US Champs either.

The fact that stuff like this was still happening this last spring kind of baffles a little bit. Was this just one ignorant athlete (and coach)? Or is the NCAA trying to play chicken with USATF and WA? Keep in mind there is a lot at stake here, a significant number of athletes from other countries qualify for the WC and Olympics through NCAA competitions in addition to the impact that this could have on American Track and Field. Maybe someone more informed than I am can comment.

Shouldn't count. And they will soon not count any NCAA marks for this reason.

If superspikes like the dragonfly are the standard for running fast anyways, why even limit supershoes with greater stack height from the track? I personally can't run in spikes due to achilles issues so wearing a road supershoe on the track helps me equal the advantage of others wearing dragonflies on the track.

It seems like at the NCAA level there are a lot of women in particular that prefer the road supershoe over the superspike for injury prevention purposes.

WA assumes that meets will be run under the rules. I posted here a year ago that at some point his was going to be a problem (it got a lot of down votes). NCAA meets I've been to up to half the field has "cheater" shoes on.

Remember Klecker tried to run a qualifying time (can't remember whether it was OG or World's) in them. He didn't get the time but when asked about it he simply said he hoped he'd get away with it. He later qualified in legal spikes.

But don't blame WA if they stop counting NCAA meets.

Obviously, the ncaa has done this before. When South Africa was banned in theory anyone who competed against a South African athlete became ineligible for the Olympics and the Worlds. They enforced it except if you ran against South Africans in NCAA races.

Outside the NCAA they enforced it. Especially if you raced in SA. Pretty sure that was how Ruth Wysocki got banned.

I still think the rules have some problems mainly the prototypes. I had thought that it was against the rules to wear shoes that were not available to all. aswell why cant we wear supershoes vs superspikes. I don't really see a difference or a problem.

In order to count be a countable meet they must agree to check the shoes of 5% - 10% of the athletes in the meet after they run. They don't need to check before hand. The meet is suppose to DQ runners who are checked and have worn shoes that are World Athletics illegal.

NCAA rules are different so some athletes may be DQ per world athletics rules but were legal in NCAA rules. NCAA meets have to apply to be World Athletics certified and must show a plan of how they are going to enforce both sets of rules. Arkansas does a great job of following both set of rules and informing all of the coaches of the rules.

I think it's been pretty well shown that the additional stack height of 40 millimeters gives an advantage for distances as short as 5k above and beyond the 25 mm allowed on the track. Nike and everyone else would have absolutely made the shoes lower if the higher stack height didn't provide any benefit. Athletes that can't run in spikes could certainly choose a flat like the Nike Streakfly which likely meets the 25 mm track standard. I would think a shoe that doesn't have a carbon fiber plate in it would be more preferable for injury prevention. The Vaporfly is notoriously hard on the achilles tendon, I assume most of the other supershoes with carbon fiber plates are as well. The fact that most of these athletes are almost universally choosing the Vaperfly and similar models for running these track races in lieu of racing flats or even a lightweight training shoe shows to me that they are looking for the additional performance benefits that these shoes specifically provide.

At this point everyone should be aware that these shoes are not allowed in track competitions. Fellow competitors, coaches, officials, everyone involved should be making a stink if someone shows up to the starting line wearing a pair of these shoes. We have world class sprinters, hurdlers, middle distance runners, jumpers and throwers looking at having their NCAA marks wiped out of the WA rankings because some distance runners need to wear trampolines on their feet to run a 32 minute 10k? That's absolutely unacceptable.

The World Athletics rules for shoes can be found here, it just says that "Development Shoes" (ie prototypes) can only be worn with written permission by WA and conform to their technical standards (stack height, a single rigid body etc), athletes can wear them for up to 12 months before they are made widely available:

https://worldathletics.org/download/download?filename=b723c6b6-7d1f-40ad-8b27-1d3f956c6c99.pdf&urlslug=C2.1A%20%E2%80%93%20Athletics%20Shoe%20Regulations%20

It's a pretty detailed document, all the more reason for everyone involved from youth competitions to the NCAA to just conform to the WA standards. Personally I think WA screwed up when they allowed these supershoes in the first place, for any competition, but since they allow them for road and XC they might as well allow them on the track as well. A small addendum to that document allowing 40mm stack height shoes for track races 5k and longer would put this issue to rest.

as I talked to my friend as she wanted to know as to the cheating shoes as she agrees with me as if I had them shoes 30 years ago as I could have made the JV team

Could not have said it better myself.

If the solution is two sets of results at all NCAA meets - a WA rankings compliant results, and NCAA/TFFRS compliant results - every athlete should be required to declare which set of standards they want applied before the meet. If you say “WA compliant” and get caught with non-compliant shoes you should be DQed from the entire meet not just WA portion.

But really the best solution is to just follow the WA shoe rules, the runners look like clowns in the trampolines anyways.

If we apply WA stack height to all NCAA and youth meets what about those D3 athletes running meets for fun in their trainers or high school athletes just getting into track running in their trainers? The issue with me is that stack height is so arbitrary. The dragonflies are bouncy and have a carbon plate but are ok because they <25mm. A random pair of trainers has no performance benefit but is not ok because it’s >25mm?? Would we also enforce this rule and make masters runners have to run in spikes as well?

idk what the rules are so i'm just gonna blab

it is a known fact that dragonflys are faster than vaporflys on the track so any advantage from stack height is already lost if you take the situation into context. they can't simply justify forcing the runners to bang their legs on a more damaging shoe like the dragonfly onto a track.

Wow. You really think that?