How do you go from 12 low to 12 flat while building mileage? I've run a couple of flying 100m strides in 12.3 (slightly 'negative splitting' it - I'd make sure to take longer strides as well as faster turnover in the final 50m; like going from 6.4 to 5.9) but I don't think I could break 11.9 with a flying start. and I also closed a workout in 24.8.
But I have run a 51s 400 and 1:52 800 so I'm a distance runner.
To get below 53 for average endurance runner You need in training
Standing 200m of 24.5
And for that 200m You need 100m below 12
Those numbers are when You are fresh after few day rest and don't run workout before them
Damn, i don’t know if I got a sub 12 100m in me, like another poster suggested I’m going to start doing sprints once a week, although I’m not a sprinter I believe getting faster would help me run a faster 800/1500
I was running mid to high 23s from the blocks for 200m when I ran low 52s and a couple of high 51s for 400m. I was spending a fair amount of time in the weight room and playing some intramural basketball with lots of max effort jumping for rebounds.
In my experience distance runners can bring their predicted 400m time down about a second or so with better endurance than what a sprinter can do, but having a lot of aerobic endurance doesn't make as big of an impact in the 400 as you might think. So you might be able to get away with a 100m time as slow as 12.4 seconds and still be able to get under 53 seconds. I don't put much stock in hand times from practice and flying times and all of that, if you really want to know your 400m potential get yourself into an automatically timed 200m and put that into the calculator above.
Set aside at least one day a week where you do flys at max. Running slow/mileage will not get you faster.
What if I run mileage 6 days a week and do the flys once a week? With like a 2 mile warm up before hand?
Guh you distance runners. It depends on how much mileage you're looking to do & what your overall racing range is. Typically you want to isolate training your alactic system/central nervous system. I'm talking one or two laps on the track to get warmed up, do sprint drills before hand to not just warm up, but also improve your sprinting form. Then do the max speed training (flys between 10-30 meters with a 20m acceleration phase; take 4-5 minutes of rest between efforts) You want to build this up; start with 4x10m, 4x20m for your first session. Total volume should be low; no more than 300m total once you build up.
No other mileage for the day. Ideally the next day is either a pure recovery run or you take the day off. Keep track of your efforts by using something like Freelap. It's expensive, but worth the investment since you want to keep track of your data so you know if you're improving.
Realistically since you're a distance guy who is probably training for XC & looking to do 40-60+ miles a week, you're building your aerobic base so you'll be lucky to be able to fit in this kind of a session every other week. Sprinkle in some 2 or 3 30-50m flys before an interval workout if you're not doing a top end speed day that week. Another thing you should be doing are 8-10x100m strides after recovery runs (once or twice a week). 60 seconds of rest in between each stride. Focus on your form. Shouldn't be overly easy, but shouldn't be max speed either. Should feel like you can do more after you're done with your 8-10 strides. Start at your 800/1600m pace & progressively get faster. Pair that with some hurdle mobility drills.
You'll also want to lift 1-2 times/week along with some plyometrics. Not that you have to hulk out, but develop some explosiveness & lean muscle. Compound lifts help make your core stronger. Make sure you eat enough calories (slight surplus to gain muscle) & protein (rule of thumb is 1:1 ratio of grams of protein to body weight, increase that ratio if you have a high metabolism until you see results).
Don't be afraid to work on your short sprint speed. It'll help your mechanics much more than junk mileage. People forget that distance running is a sport, not a leisure activity interrupted by occasional bouts of aerobic activity. You need to run fast to be fast. Galen Rupp ran a flying 11.0 100m days before getting Olympic silver in the 10k.
Don't be afraid to work on your short sprint speed. It'll help your mechanics much more than junk mileage. People forget that distance running is a sport, not a leisure activity interrupted by occasional bouts of aerobic activity. You need to run fast to be fast. Galen Rupp ran a flying 11.0 100m days before getting Olympic silver in the 10k.
There is no way, that Rupp was that slow.
Flying 12.0 is converts to over 13s in race. Which then converts to 26.50 200m. And in the end to 56-57s 400m
IMO you can work top end more once a week if you time it right (ie only work on it when fresh so that neuromuscular system is firing well). I do it three times a week, always 48h-72h out from my last hard endurance workout (ie intervals, thresholds, long run). M T F are my big volume/workout days, top end work comes M (pre-workout) Th and Sun. Just easy mileage after top end work on Th & Sun so ready for next days endurance work.
Low doses of top end (ie say 4-6 flying 20s or 30s plus 2-3 static starts to help acceleration) also won't interfere with your endurance-specific workouts. I do the above as part of my warmup before Monday interval sessions (400s or 800s). Just focus on full recovery between reps, and don't do reps to the point of fatigue (that's not the point) so every rep is quality.
I also agree with the posters saying low 12s or 12 flat for a open 52s 400m. I went 12.2 flying 100 in training when I ran 53 in the open 400.
When I was in high school I trained for 1500-10000.
My fastest 100m in training was 12.0 from standing start. In wind legal race I got 24.98 200m. After that my 400m was 54.02. Perfectly fine formula - 2x200m +4s.
As an adult my best time in training was 11.0 and in legal race I managed 11.78
Then in 200m it trasnlated to 23.52. Fine, as most do 200m at double 100m time. 400m pb is 50.57