Are kickers born or made? Or is kick somewhat psychological? Lex and Leo Young comparison

Made or born. There has got to be something internal that clicks when its time to kick. Some have it, most don't ... and, yes, it can be trained.

Yes, I agree.
I theorize that - about the top 10% of kickers, athletes who are known for having a "lethal kick" (i.e., Simeon Burnbaum, Woody Kickcaid, Geordie Beamish, etc.) it haaassss to be something genetic.
But for a portion of the population, they must be able to be developed into kickers.
Idk, it's just a theory.

*Kincaid

Wow, Freudian slip.

Here's where you're wrong. While identical twins start out with the same DNA, during development, mutations occur during cell replication which causes genetic differences.

I'm aware of that. To what degree is it altered though? (Do you have a study you can point me to?) I don't believe DNA is drastically altered.

I agree that a mental component has to be considered. With most identical twins they certainly have a distinct personality and at least some unique experiences. This impact their decision making process which like said is part of kicking. So even if physiologically they have the same capabilities, their ability to manifest them in a performance is likely different.

Also you aren't controlling for other things such as rest, nutrition, etc. Are all these things equal for the twins? Furthermore you have natural randomness. For example, suppose one twin by chance rolled their ankle which limited their training. Within a small time frame randomness can make things be observed that cannot be accounted for especially when you're talking about n=1 example.

This also brings up the point about training mental part of running. You always hear about optimal training and presumably it's talking about physiological benefits but if running is heavily mental then at what point does the mental component need to be considered when creating a training plan for an individual?

I don't feel like doing a deep dive on genetics to understand this, but this goes to show there are differences that may account for their different running abilities. Maybe Leo got the genes to code for more fast-twitch fibers than Lex. Injury history may also account for these differences. Nobody can say for certain, though.

Another aspect of the kick that often gets left out is one's race strategy. Having a true kick - meaning actually accelerating in the final portions of the race - requires a lot of patience, enough self-awareness to not go out too fast while also positioning yourself in the pack so that you're not making frequent accelerations. I think the differences between the brothers are more genetic, but racing tactics could also account for these differences.

mcgill.ca

Identical Twins Are Not Identical

There is a common parental misunderstanding that arises when the term “identical twins” is paraded around. Identical twins are known scientifically as “monozygotic twins.” This Scrabble winner of a term refers to the fact tha...

Link:www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/general-scie...

Yesss, this is what I'm talking about, the psychological should be considered! I'm a natural kicker myself, but what I think happens with young athletes: they get outkicked a few times in XC races, for example, and then they tell themselves, "I don't have a good kick." Well, perhaps they raced against some older runners who were more developed in their speed, who knows. Perhaps they need time to develop their kick.

Not to embarrass him, but can I use the example of Connor Burns. He said in his post NON mile race interview last week, "I don't have the snappiness that Simeon and Leo have..." but yet he closed with a 55s final lap in his two-mile race the week before? That's not exactly "no kick!" I mean, that's very fast for a final lap, imo, and he's only like 18, or whatever. Still more years to develop.

Its mental, you're always going to have a dominant twin. I'm an identical twin, my brother and I both did track in the late 90s early 2000s and I was faster than him by at least 5 seconds in the 1600. Did I have better genes than him? Probably not I just wanted it more than him.

The thing that always seemed unique to me about Lex and Leo is that neither twin was consistently “better” than the other. They seemed to switch who came out on too from week to week. Lex’s injury this winter and the focus for him on the 5k with Leo focused on shorter stuff has differentiated them a bit this year. But it seems like all other sets of elite distance runner twins in the past had a “fast” twin and a “slow” twin.

Are they Identical twins? I didn’t think they were but a kick is something that is practiced and learned.

Hmm, thanks for your input.

Malmo... how would you train a kick?

Good point, Jumbo207; I did not consider one may have had a recent injury which would affect their training, and this could've explained the 2 second difference in the NON mile race last week. Great point, dude!

It seems that John Walker and Steve Scott had learning disorders when compared to the British guys.

Both Scott and Walker were tremendous runners but were 1500/5000m while Ovett, Coe and Cram were 800/1500m.

Ohhh, okay. Got it.

All Genetics.

I used to train with a sub-elite group but never donned their uniform because I could not meet their standards (Sub-16 5K, Sub-35 10K, Sub 1:15 Half). With a PR of 16:50 they were generous enough to let me tag along, and I was regularly blown out of the water on mile repeats.

However, we did a 12x200 workout and I had no problem staying with and outkicking their fastest post college guys who were running 1:55 800m at time. Come race day, I was crushed by all of them in the 5K, and I was even doing substantial mileage at the time (65-70 mpw). I just didn't have the genetic aerobic engine/speed endurance they had and more mileage didn't yield better results at all. I just lacked the talent.

I'd say "kickers" are born.

Speaking of actual kickers. Our high school had a kid who went on to play football in the SEC as a punter/kicker. I will not call the guy out, but he had a terrible work ethic and was arrogant, but had the genetic gift to smash the football. His leg speed was off the charts and it was all natural ability. I watched him split the uprights on a kickoff once in a game. He's a fine example of talent over training.