"It is now well known that East Germany operated a state-sponsored system of providing performance-enhancing drugs to as many as 10,000 athletes from about 1968 to 1988. Cierpinski was implicated by East German track and field research files uncovered by Werner Franke at the Stasi headquarters in Leipzig in the late 1990s.[3]
As a result, 1976 silver medallist Frank Shorter has advocated the belief that Cierpinski cheated and has supported official review of past performances, i.e. considering stripping medals from athletes who are found later on to have cheated, as a deterrent to drug-cheats.[4] Fourth-place finisher Don Kardong has also written that he believed Cierpinski was involved in the East German doping program.[5] Shorter's allegations are very similar to those of Shirley Babashoff, who accused the East German women of drug cheating during the swimming events in the same Olympic Games, which was later substantiated by investigators in the PBS documentary "Secrets of the Dead: Doping for Gold"." from Cierpinski's Wikipedia!
-
173
-
Cierpinski was cheating. We are not sure about Frank Shorter. We have no evidence that Frank was cheating though.
254 -
Jed Clampett wrote:
"It is now well known that East Germany operated a state-sponsored system of providing performance-enhancing drugs to as many as 10,000 athletes from about 1968 to 1988. Cierpinski was implicated by East German track and field research files uncovered by Werner Franke at the Stasi headquarters in Leipzig in the late 1990s.[3]
As a result, 1976 silver medallist Frank Shorter has advocated the belief that Cierpinski cheated and has supported official review of past performances, i.e. considering stripping medals from athletes who are found later on to have cheated, as a deterrent to drug-cheats.[4] Fourth-place finisher Don Kardong has also written that he believed Cierpinski was involved in the East German doping program.[5] Shorter's allegations are very similar to those of Shirley Babashoff, who accused the East German women of drug cheating during the swimming events in the same Olympic Games, which was later substantiated by investigators in the PBS documentary "Secrets of the Dead: Doping for Gold"." from Cierpinski's Wikipedia!Frank Shorter has suggested Ciepinski may have been on the juice. Gee, what motive does Frank have?
Don Kardong has suggested Ciepinski may have been on the juice. Does Don K have a motive?
1148 -
I wonder their motive ..? wrote:
Jed Clampett wrote:
"It is now well known that East Germany operated a state-sponsored system of providing performance-enhancing drugs to as many as 10,000 athletes from about 1968 to 1988. Cierpinski was implicated by East German track and field research files uncovered by Werner Franke at the Stasi headquarters in Leipzig in the late 1990s.[3]
As a result, 1976 silver medallist Frank Shorter has advocated the belief that Cierpinski cheated and has supported official review of past performances, i.e. considering stripping medals from athletes who are found later on to have cheated, as a deterrent to drug-cheats.[4] Fourth-place finisher Don Kardong has also written that he believed Cierpinski was involved in the East German doping program.[5] Shorter's allegations are very similar to those of Shirley Babashoff, who accused the East German women of drug cheating during the swimming events in the same Olympic Games, which was later substantiated by investigators in the PBS documentary "Secrets of the Dead: Doping for Gold"." from Cierpinski's Wikipedia!Frank Shorter has suggested Ciepinski may have been on the juice. Gee, what motive does Frank have?
Don Kardong has suggested Ciepinski may have been on the juice. Does Don K have a motive?
Darn right they have a motive. And if I got cheated out of a gold (or bronze) medal, I’d have a motive to expose the cheater too.
What’s your point?
774 -
Even if there were ethical East Germans who refused to be doped, their coaches amd doctors had ways of doping them surreptitiously.
275 -
Coevett wrote:
Even if there were ethical East Germans who refused to be doped, their coaches amd doctors had ways of doping them surreptitiously.
E Germany was part of which continent?
315 -
I don't really care. I agree with Lydiard, it's not about the drugs.
232 -
If you think about it, Frank Shorter got cheated twice. The first time in Munich when an imposter ran into the Olympic Stadium before Shorter and elicited boos from the crowd which Frank heard as he arrived. Undoubtably Shorter should have double Gold and Kardong a well deserved Bronze.
411 -
They had a state-sponsored doping system and Cierpinksi was included in the files. IS there really a question here/
531 -
Expose the cheaters wrote:
I wonder their motive ..? wrote:
Frank Shorter has suggested Ciepinski may have been on the juice. Gee, what motive does Frank have?
Don Kardong has suggested Ciepinski may have been on the juice. Does Don K have a motive?
Darn right they have a motive. And if I got cheated out of a gold (or bronze) medal, I’d have a motive to expose the cheater too.
What’s your point?
My point?
Frank and Don over the years have produced zero evidence. That is my point. What is their evidence? Both 1976 & 1980 were slightly warm days? To Frank & Don, anyone racing sub-2:12 Marathon on a warm day is a cheater? Is that their evidence?
Ciepinksi could counter: Frank Shorter couldn't race sub-10 2 mile in high school. No way could Frank race sub-5 mile for 26.2 miles.
647 -
I wonder their motive ..? wrote:
Expose the cheaters wrote:
Darn right they have a motive. And if I got cheated out of a gold (or bronze) medal, I’d have a motive to expose the cheater too.
What’s your point?
My point?
Frank and Don over the years have produced zero evidence. That is my point. What is their evidence? Both 1976 & 1980 were slightly warm days? To Frank & Don, anyone racing sub-2:12 Marathon on a warm day is a cheater? Is that their evidence?
Ciepinksi could counter: Frank Shorter couldn't race sub-10 2 mile in high school. No way could Frank race sub-5 mile for 26.2 miles.
Read the post prior to this quoted post. It is your answer.
190 -
dmb wrote:
They had a state-sponsored doping system and Cierpinksi was included in the files. IS there really a question here/
Have you ever actually seen those files and specifically seen Cierpinski's name in them? I've seen this story for decades now but have never been able to find them anywhere on line. I've seen several quotes from Frank where he says he's seen the files and seen Cierpinski's name in them but that's as close as I've ever come to seeing the actual files.
This post was edited 10 minutes after it was posted. Reason provided: Correct punctuation.58 -
Go away clown.
Do you see western women whining today regarding then East German swimmers from about 50 years ago? Do you see western women whining today regarding then East German and then Soviet T&F athletes from about 50 years ago?
How did then West Germany often have a mirror elite athlete to compete at same or similar level as alleged p.e.d. user then East German athletes?
Slower than 10 minutes 2 mile stumped you. You did not address that. Think of thousands of U.S. sub-10 2 milers and sub-9:55 3200m guys who never go on to race sub-2:11 Marathon. There are high school sub-9 3200m guys reading today who will never race sub-2:11 Marathon.
Be careful when you investigators start digging into Olympic medalists from fifty years ago.
330 -
I wonder their motive ..? wrote:
Go away clown.
Do you see western women whining today regarding then East German swimmers from about 50 years ago? Do you see western women whining today regarding then East German and then Soviet T&F athletes from about 50 years ago?
How did then West Germany often have a mirror elite athlete to compete at same or similar level as alleged p.e.d. user then East German athletes?
Slower than 10 minutes 2 mile stumped you. You did not address that. Think of thousands of U.S. sub-10 2 milers and sub-9:55 3200m guys who never go on to race sub-2:11 Marathon. There are high school sub-9 3200m guys reading today who will never race sub-2:11 Marathon.
Be careful when you investigators start digging into Olympic medalists from fifty years ago.
Agree here. My son is a very low talent yet he just ran a 9:16 2 mile as a 17 year old. He is not an Olympic Champion talent. Maybe with drugs.
Kind of like Frank Shorter. Who undoubtedly used drugs.
744 -
The only clown here is you.
The only facts in evidence are what was in those EG files.
Be careful of stroking out because you seem a bit triggered by all of this.
34 -
Sure as there’s feathers on a chicken.
40 -
I wonder their motive ..? wrote:
Go away clown.
Do you see western women whining today regarding then East German swimmers from about 50 years ago? Do you see western women whining today regarding then East German and then Soviet T&F athletes from about 50 years ago?
How did then West Germany often have a mirror elite athlete to compete at same or similar level as alleged p.e.d. user then East German athletes?
Slower than 10 minutes 2 mile stumped you. You did not address that. Think of thousands of U.S. sub-10 2 milers and sub-9:55 3200m guys who never go on to race sub-2:11 Marathon. There are high school sub-9 3200m guys reading today who will never race sub-2:11 Marathon.
Be careful when you investigators start digging into Olympic medalists from fifty years ago.
My wife was an elite swimmer in the era of East German women's swimming dominance. Her friends on the '72 and '76 Olympic swim teams complained long and loudly that something wasn't right with the East German women, who had deep voices and upper body muscles that looked like men's when our swimmers saw them in the locker rooms. Nobody really listened to our women at the time. Sadly, our coaches didn't back them up at the time and nobody really pushed for an investigation of drug use.
252 -
dmb wrote:
They had a state-sponsored doping system and Cierpinksi was included in the files. IS there really a question here/
Remember when Russia stole a Gold Medal from the USA basketball team? They protested and protested until they got the win.
My immediate thought with Cierpinski is he was immediately declared illegal. Perhaps someone protested? That's my explanation.
82 -
old sports fan wrote:My wife was an elite swimmer in the era of East German women's swimming dominance.
Cierpinski never was a woman though.
In the 70's, there was no miracle drug for long distance running. There was no EPO. Cierpinski went to high altitude training in Bulgaria and South America, just like Shorter went to Boulder.
Sure they might have taken other stuff, but to quote Lance, that's all "low octane".
The East Germans and Russians had success in women's running because they gave them testosterone and/or male hormones.
The Chinese might have done the same in the 90's. They were also never able to replicate the same on the men's side.
Cierpinski won his gold medals running 2:10 and 2:12. You don't need doping for that. Ryan Hall (very faithful Christian) would have finished over a mile ahead of him with his 2:04 AR.
419 -
BroScienceDude wrote:
old sports fan wrote:My wife was an elite swimmer in the era of East German women's swimming dominance.
Cierpinski never was a woman though.
In the 70's, there was no miracle drug for long distance running. There was no EPO. Cierpinski went to high altitude training in Bulgaria and South America, just like Shorter went to Boulder.
Sure they might have taken other stuff, but to quote Lance, that's all "low octane".
The East Germans and Russians had success in women's running because they gave them testosterone and/or male hormones.
The Chinese might have done the same in the 90's. They were also never able to replicate the same on the men's side.
Cierpinski won his gold medals running 2:10 and 2:12. You don't need doping for that. Ryan Hall (very faithful Christian) would have finished over a mile ahead of him with his 2:04 AR.
There were blood transfusions being used by distance runners back in the 70s. If the Finns were using blood transfusions - you can rest assured other countries were using them (transfusions weren't illegal in the 70s yet).
The East German doping program centered around the anabolic steroid "Turinbol," which is a potent steroid with high anabolic properties. Used in smaller dosages, Turinbol would benefit a marathon runner. Recovery from hard workouts would greatly be improve as steroids combat the high cortisol levels produced by intense workouts. Plus the athlete would feel more aggressive in their training & racing (increased testosterone levels). In addition, androgens have been shown to increase Hct/Hgb 7% -- 10%.
So, Cierpinski could have been using small dosages of Turinbol benefiting from improved recovery from hard workouts, training & racing more aggressively & receiving a slight increase in Hct/Hgb.
This seems like it would be the normal preparation of an East German distance runner. 😉
121
