I am a slow runner, run by feel, and only run 2-3 times a week. After a recent software update, my Coros watch finally seems to have a more realistic estimate of my threshold pace as 8’35” (from earlier unbelievable estimates of ~7’45”), but now it considers my long runs as tempo or threshold, e.g., it thought my 9’26” pace 8-mile run today was “tempo” and my 9’28” pace 10-mile run last week was “threshold”. FYI, Coros’ categories in increasing order of hardness are base, aerobic power, tempo, threshold, VO2Max, anaerobic.
I do a track workout once a week and run 800 or 1K repeats comfortably at 7’10-7’40” pace with short walking recovery, and my watch used to consider them threshold workouts, but now it categorizes them as “Anaerobic”.
Am I running my long runs or workouts too fast to be productive? What’s a good thumb rule to derive my base or easy pace from my threshold pace? My watch’s estimate of 8’35” threshold pace seems about right as I have at least once recently in training run a 10k at 8’55” pace as a subset of my long run, so I feel like I should be able to sustain a pace of at least 8’40” for 50-60 minutes.
I am a slow runner, run by feel, and only run 2-3 times a week. After a recent software update, my Coros watch finally seems to have a more realistic estimate of my threshold pace as 8’35” (from earlier unbelievable estimates of ~7’45”), but now it considers my long runs as tempo or threshold, e.g., it thought my 9’26” pace 8-mile run today was “tempo” and my 9’28” pace 10-mile run last week was “threshold”. FYI, Coros’ categories in increasing order of hardness are base, aerobic power, tempo, threshold, VO2Max, anaerobic.
I do a track workout once a week and run 800 or 1K repeats comfortably at 7’10-7’40” pace with short walking recovery, and my watch used to consider them threshold workouts, but now it categorizes them as “Anaerobic”.
Am I running my long runs or workouts too fast to be productive? What’s a good thumb rule to derive my base or easy pace from my threshold pace? My watch’s estimate of 8’35” threshold pace seems about right as I have at least once recently in training run a 10k at 8’55” pace as a subset of my long run, so I feel like I should be able to sustain a pace of at least 8’40” for 50-60 minutes.
Disclaimer: I'm a COROs sponsored athlete. But I agree the semantics/labels here are confusing. There was a big recent software update as well. I believe now it is (increasing in intensity]:
"Aerobic Endurance" to "Aerobic Power" to "Threshold" to "Anaerobic Endurance" to "Anaerobic Power" on my app.
When it says "Threshold" I would think like "Zone 3" on a 5-zone system and I'd call it more like "Steady State" or "Aerobic Threshold" or "Uptempo" as it is technically more like 3 hour race pace (around marathon pace for many) and it should be considered quite different from something like a higher intensity Zone 4 or true "Tempo" which then would be technically the "Lactate Threshold" or "Anaerobic Threshold" and would be more like 40-min to 1 hour all-out race pace depending on the talent/experience/age/speed of the runner. For most people that critical Threshold (in reference to Lactate levels) is closer to 10km race pace then it is to Half Marathon race pace though.
Anyway, you can go in the app and reconfigure your HR zones. If you don't have a chest strap there is a good chance your HR data could be totally off as wrist/optical sensors generally aren't very accurate. Also, I think there is a way to enter in your PRs or do a "recent 30-min fitness test" at least that should make the pace and effort ranges more accurate. My COROS displays the effort of my runs in the App based on HR zones but also based on my actual Paces (i.e. can actually be more helpful on a flat road run).
The data should get better with more time and when it can recognize an all-out race effort. Otherwise, yeah I'd say your 8:35/mile could be a closer to a true actual "Lactate Threshold"....
If that was the case, then (using COROS's labeling scale) then "Aerobic Power" would be a bit slower and closer to 9:00/mile.
I think the real question is: How well can you breathe at these paces? Do you have any sort of standard race distance (5km, 10km, Half etc) performance times as reference for these relative paces?
And finally [shameless sponsor plug] I just did a video on my thoughts of "Zone Training" and labeling:
The trick is to just design your workouts in a way to that they are in the right zone.
For intervalls keeping the rest short but doing a good amount of reps while doing the same splints will do the trick.
I.e. 6x800m 90-120 sec rest at same pace will be in the right zone (aerobic power)
Long run is the same, make it a minimum of 10 miles, I guarantee will most likely be aerobic and in all the right zones.
Except you somehow forced yourself to run it so hard that you are not recovered for your intervalls 48h latter, but that requires a lot of willpower in a non race situation.
Btw I do tempos / marathon pace work as part of Long Runs.
Really no downside to it, just upside, so ignore the watch...
If you don't have a chest strap there is a good chance your HR data could be totally off as wrist/optical sensors generally aren't very accurate. ...
I think the real question is: How well can you breathe at these paces? Do you have any sort of standard race distance (5km, 10km, Half etc) performance times as reference for these relative paces?
This is what the reply above was getting at with "throw away the watch". Maybe not throw it away, but consider that it's only one piece of data that might not be 100% accurate all the time.
I am a slow runner, run by feel, and only run 2-3 times a week. After a recent software update, my Coros watch finally seems to have a more realistic estimate of my threshold pace as 8’35” (from earlier unbelievable estimates of ~7’45”), but now it considers my long runs as tempo or threshold, e.g., it thought my 9’26” pace 8-mile run today was “tempo” and my 9’28” pace 10-mile run last week was “threshold”. FYI, Coros’ categories in increasing order of hardness are base, aerobic power, tempo, threshold, VO2Max, anaerobic.
I do a track workout once a week and run 800 or 1K repeats comfortably at 7’10-7’40” pace with short walking recovery, and my watch used to consider them threshold workouts, but now it categorizes them as “Anaerobic”.
Am I running my long runs or workouts too fast to be productive? What’s a good thumb rule to derive my base or easy pace from my threshold pace? My watch’s estimate of 8’35” threshold pace seems about right as I have at least once recently in training run a 10k at 8’55” pace as a subset of my long run, so I feel like I should be able to sustain a pace of at least 8’40” for 50-60 minutes.
Disclaimer: I'm a COROs sponsored athlete. But I agree the semantics/labels here are confusing. There was a big recent software update as well. I believe now it is (increasing in intensity]:
"Aerobic Endurance" to "Aerobic Power" to "Threshold" to "Anaerobic Endurance" to "Anaerobic Power" on my app.
When it says "Threshold" I would think like "Zone 3" on a 5-zone system and I'd call it more like "Steady State" or "Aerobic Threshold" or "Uptempo" as it is technically more like 3 hour race pace (around marathon pace for many) and it should be considered quite different from something like a higher intensity Zone 4 or true "Tempo" which then would be technically the "Lactate Threshold" or "Anaerobic Threshold" and would be more like 40-min to 1 hour all-out race pace depending on the talent/experience/age/speed of the runner. For most people that critical Threshold (in reference to Lactate levels) is closer to 10km race pace then it is to Half Marathon race pace though.
Anyway, you can go in the app and reconfigure your HR zones. If you don't have a chest strap there is a good chance your HR data could be totally off as wrist/optical sensors generally aren't very accurate. Also, I think there is a way to enter in your PRs or do a "recent 30-min fitness test" at least that should make the pace and effort ranges more accurate. My COROS displays the effort of my runs in the App based on HR zones but also based on my actual Paces (i.e. can actually be more helpful on a flat road run).
The data should get better with more time and when it can recognize an all-out race effort. Otherwise, yeah I'd say your 8:35/mile could be a closer to a true actual "Lactate Threshold"....
If that was the case, then (using COROS's labeling scale) then "Aerobic Power" would be a bit slower and closer to 9:00/mile.
I think the real question is: How well can you breathe at these paces? Do you have any sort of standard race distance (5km, 10km, Half etc) performance times as reference for these relative paces?
And finally [shameless sponsor plug] I just did a video on my thoughts of "Zone Training" and labeling:
Utterly unhelpful and unresponsive to the question.
It was actually a pretty helpful response based on your initial post. If you are really asking if a long run should be at threshold pace, then you need to do more research.
I am a slow runner, run by feel, and only run 2-3 times a week. After a recent software update, my Coros watch finally seems to have a more realistic estimate of my threshold pace as 8’35” (from earlier unbelievable estimates of ~7’45”), but now it considers my long runs as tempo or threshold, e.g., it thought my 9’26” pace 8-mile run today was “tempo” and my 9’28” pace 10-mile run last week was “threshold”. FYI, Coros’ categories in increasing order of hardness are base, aerobic power, tempo, threshold, VO2Max, anaerobic.
I do a track workout once a week and run 800 or 1K repeats comfortably at 7’10-7’40” pace with short walking recovery, and my watch used to consider them threshold workouts, but now it categorizes them as “Anaerobic”.
Am I running my long runs or workouts too fast to be productive? What’s a good thumb rule to derive my base or easy pace from my threshold pace? My watch’s estimate of 8’35” threshold pace seems about right as I have at least once recently in training run a 10k at 8’55” pace as a subset of my long run, so I feel like I should be able to sustain a pace of at least 8’40” for 50-60 minutes.
Disclaimer: I'm a COROs sponsored athlete. But I agree the semantics/labels here are confusing. There was a big recent software update as well. I believe now it is (increasing in intensity]:
"Aerobic Endurance" to "Aerobic Power" to "Threshold" to "Anaerobic Endurance" to "Anaerobic Power" on my app.
When it says "Threshold" I would think like "Zone 3" on a 5-zone system and I'd call it more like "Steady State" or "Aerobic Threshold" or "Uptempo" as it is technically more like 3 hour race pace (around marathon pace for many) and it should be considered quite different from something like a higher intensity Zone 4 or true "Tempo" which then would be technically the "Lactate Threshold" or "Anaerobic Threshold" and would be more like 40-min to 1 hour all-out race pace depending on the talent/experience/age/speed of the runner. For most people that critical Threshold (in reference to Lactate levels) is closer to 10km race pace then it is to Half Marathon race pace though.
Anyway, you can go in the app and reconfigure your HR zones. If you don't have a chest strap there is a good chance your HR data could be totally off as wrist/optical sensors generally aren't very accurate. Also, I think there is a way to enter in your PRs or do a "recent 30-min fitness test" at least that should make the pace and effort ranges more accurate. My COROS displays the effort of my runs in the App based on HR zones but also based on my actual Paces (i.e. can actually be more helpful on a flat road run).
The data should get better with more time and when it can recognize an all-out race effort. Otherwise, yeah I'd say your 8:35/mile could be a closer to a true actual "Lactate Threshold"....
If that was the case, then (using COROS's labeling scale) then "Aerobic Power" would be a bit slower and closer to 9:00/mile.
I think the real question is: How well can you breathe at these paces? Do you have any sort of standard race distance (5km, 10km, Half etc) performance times as reference for these relative paces?
And finally [shameless sponsor plug] I just did a video on my thoughts of "Zone Training" and labeling:
Thanks for the response, Sage. My breathing during long runs at 9’30” pace feels easy, maybe once every 2-3 seconds, and such that I can talk (with some panting of course), but my breathing during workouts at say 7’20” pace gets more labored, which is all as expected I think. I also find that slowing much more in pace, say 10’ pace or slower hardly reduces my HR, so it intuitively feels useless. I don’t have race times coz I just run for fun and health.
FYI, the Coros zones you are listing are the heart rate/pace zones, but the categories I listed are a single label for the entire workout that it shows if you scroll down to Training Effect on your workout, and you can click the little ‘i’ icon to see all categories and their descriptions. The derivation of and the seeming discrepancy between the overall training effect and the average pace zone for the run is inscrutable, so please tell papa Coros if you can to make it more intuitive.
You are not doing your long runs too fast, though walking days at much slower mile pace would be of benefit. The interval work you describe is fine, most athletes at your fitness level self select suitable interval paces and cap regulate effort.
The watch is not doing you any favors, the terminology is simplistic just leading you to overthink. Throwing away the watch is actually the right call.
Running twice a day at this point would be even dumber than depending on the watch. Bring your 5000 down before bothering with a marathon focus.