Is daniels outdated ?

Just run baby.

Daniels is perfect for someone to follow if they don't have a clue of how to put together a training plan but need some structure. A lot of high school programs use it because a lot of high school coaches have no background in training philosophy and aren't creative or willing to learn.

Mike Smith at NAU uses the pace zones but obviously doesn't follow the plans from the books, but Dave Smith at OSU (at least until a few years ago, not sure now) used plans almost pulled directly from the book.

It's not very creative and IMO it gets really stale really fast, but it hits most things in an efficient way (though I obviously, per my namesake, believe it misses out on lot by skipping "gray areas" of training paces) and will get most young/newer runners improving in the 1500-5k. I don't personally believe Daniels is good at all for the 800m.

One of the great joys of coaching is the ability to create something unique in training and I think if most people apply themselves they can do a lot better than Daniels.

It’s a good starting point. Just throw in some speed development here and there, and allow them to cut down a little bit more on the “R” Repetition training and you are pretty good.

Oh and doing his longer “M” Marathon paced tempos are good too

Not outdated.

So the only innovation is to add more hills sprints, 30 meter fly ins, weights, core ?

The “easy” paces are too fast. The 20 minute “tempo” workout can be done much better. Too many hard days. You have to wear a cowboy hat and be named after an alcoholic drink. Besides these things it’s a solid formula for any time period.

Actually I was thinking about it the last days as I wanted to use it for my first marathon ( 2q plans).
Is this plan still considered valid today or has the « modern » ( or at least the new popular ones ) theories with the importance of large threshold volumes more success today regarding marathon training ?

It’s still a great program, but I think the way that it gets transcribed from elite level runners to more novice and intermediate runners is the problem. I see that as less of an issue of Daniels himself and more of coaches not knowing what to do with it.

When I was in high school (early 00s), there was a school in my state that was pretty heavy Daniels that was dominant. Lots of other schools kind of jumped on that, but most did not have the same success and that was due to them not really understanding how to apply Daniels to everyone from 4:20 guys to 5:20 guys.

As far as a more “modern” approach: The next big breakthrough in training plans I saw was when Tinman started coaching LV, which just took things to an unprecedented level.

Blasphemer!

It's still a really good training program for non-elites. Workouts at x% of weekly volume, paces based on current race times, T I and R paces, etc. It really takes the guess work out of training and very hard to burn out on if you follow the plans properly.

NO ..

Outdated.

If you want to become a good runner, instead of a very good runner, then Daniels is the best recipe for it.

I mean, tons of programs still don’t do that. Some utilize it but don’t maintain throughout a year.

I guess double threshold is big. But Daniels has threshold in there.

Training innovations are overrated. Understand a stimulus and extrapolate it to the group you are working with. Daniels was never unique either. A lot of coaches did similar things.

The only truly different programs that were used with frequency at some point was Igloi and Paavo style regimens.

Slightly outdated.. also the training paces are a bit fast unless you are a developed athlete.. Philosophy is good though.

I’ve had the same question. What book or resource summarizes the latest training philosophy? I understand that Daniels basic periodization is outdated that the top programs maintain a race-ready fitness year round. That would be a huge change from the peaks and valleys of Daniels training.

The best training book I've read in the last 15 years is "Run Faster" by Hudson and Fitzgerald.

I see a lot of what Ritz is doing with OAC in that book. I wouldn't say that it is "race-ready fitness" all year round, but it is definitely a little more consistent with touching on all parts of the complete runner than Daniels.

everything but double threshold lactate based training is outdated