A reason it doesn’t work is because society doesn’t actually recognize the transition and continues to make life miserable for trans people at every opportunity.
Thanks for this heartbreaking article. I knew about the Kentucky bill, but didn't know the story of Karen and Henry Berg.
Using procedural trickery to prevent a vote on her amendment that would require teachers to address students as their parents request -- whether cis or trans -- shows that the bill has nothing to do with protecting students from alleged transgroomer teachers and everything to do with ostracizing trans children. As Karen Berg said, “Your vote ‘yes’ on this bill means one of two things. Either you believe that trans children do not exist or you believe that trans children do not deserve to exist.”
The former belief can only come from ignorance. The latter can only come from hatred.
Your last sentence shows your inability to critically distance yourself from the cultural waters in which you swim. "Trans" is a relatively recent, Western way of understanding behavior; one can look back only a few decades to see how the category has shifted over time. Trans was once defined as a biological or psychological phenomenon that led some people to become transsexual (this meant that one had surgery); now it is a mystical category describing any person who experiences discomfort with one's sexed body or wants to peform affectations associated with the other sex for pleasure. At the extremes, trans parts ways with sex entirely and becomes an ideology through which hyperliberal ideas (individuals are disembodied subjectivities) combine with technology in an effort to transcent the human body. Human beings are males and females who reproduce through sexual intercourse; transhumans sculpt the body into whatever the mind desires, even escaping the body entirely to live entirely in the digital world.
Here you are calling people ignorant and genocidal, and yet you are operating from a deeply presentist and ethnocentic viewpoint--one that advocates for radical interventions into the minds and bodies of minors, preventing them from undergoing normal developmental processes, sterilizing them before they have the capacity to weigh risks and benefits and understand themselves.
Your last sentence shows your inability to critically distance yourself from the cultural waters in which you swim. "Trans" is a relatively recent, Western way of understanding behavior; one can look back only a few decades to see how the category has shifted over time.
What an ahistorical and Eurocentric view this is...
Thanks for this heartbreaking article. I knew about the Kentucky bill, but didn't know the story of Karen and Henry Berg.
Using procedural trickery to prevent a vote on her amendment that would require teachers to address students as their parents request -- whether cis or trans -- shows that the bill has nothing to do with protecting students from alleged transgroomer teachers and everything to do with ostracizing trans children. As Karen Berg said, “Your vote ‘yes’ on this bill means one of two things. Either you believe that trans children do not exist or you believe that trans children do not deserve to exist.”
The former belief can only come from ignorance. The latter can only come from hatred.
Your last sentence shows your inability to critically distance yourself from the cultural waters in which you swim. "Trans" is a relatively recent, Western way of understanding behavior; one can look back only a few decades to see how the category has shifted over time. Trans was once defined as a biological or psychological phenomenon that led some people to become transsexual (this meant that one had surgery); now it is a mystical category describing any person who experiences discomfort with one's sexed body or wants to peform affectations associated with the other sex for pleasure. At the extremes, trans parts ways with sex entirely and becomes an ideology through which hyperliberal ideas (individuals are disembodied subjectivities) combine with technology in an effort to transcent the human body. Human beings are males and females who reproduce through sexual intercourse; transhumans sculpt the body into whatever the mind desires, even escaping the body entirely to live entirely in the digital world.
Here you are calling people ignorant and genocidal, and yet you are operating from a deeply presentist and ethnocentic viewpoint--one that advocates for radical interventions into the minds and bodies of minors, preventing them from undergoing normal developmental processes, sterilizing them before they have the capacity to weigh risks and benefits and understand themselves.
Your last sentence shows your inability to critically distance yourself from the cultural waters in which you swim. "Trans" is a relatively recent, Western way of understanding behavior; one can look back only a few decades to see how the category has shifted over time.
What an ahistorical and Eurocentric view this is...
Just like the trans phenomenon itself. GD is correct, I’m afraid.
There have been attempts to claim that modern-day transgenderism is part of a long tradition of gender-ROLE-bending in history, such as the Native American personages found in some tribes’ histories who we now refer to in English as “two-spirits,” but it is in fact a modern, Europe- and America-centric phenomenon that arises only from modern, European and American ways of thinking, particularly in the academy. It is also undeniable that its spread and current trendiness is not just traceable to the influence of academic “queer theory” but actually a long time GOAL of that philosophy. Queer theory has long sought to, in its own words, “complicate” gender and sexuality categories and get people to see them as bendable or even breakable. Ostensibly their reason for doing this was to help get people to accept sexual minorities, though in my opinion the queer theorists got so used to “complicating” categories that they’ve forgotten why they do it in the first place. (I think this is rapidly becoming true of self-described “antiracists” but that’s another issue).
Queer theorists are activist philosophers, though: they aren’t looking at what IS true through experimentation like a scientist, but seeking to MAKE true what they believe is to their advantage. They are postmodernists, after all, so the very foundation of their philosophy is the idea that there is no “truth” per se but that power, influence, and ways of communicating “make” truth. They believe if power dynamics and/or centers of influence and/or communicative media change in time, what we take as “truth” can also change in time, even in the absence of any evidence for the new truth, or any discovery of new measurable phenomena of the sort that would cause a scientifically-minded person change his or her mind.
Except it often doesn't work as a remedy and can be permanently disabling.
If an adult wants to mutilate their body I'm pretty much ok with that. Just don't expect me to reward them by allowing them to compete in sports.
Funny that you find it so easy to assume that anyone would lightly make the decision of losing body parts or functions permanently without a compelling distressing condition and without doing sufficient research into outcomes.
Bro if hunter wheres the blow and Armstronglivs (two of the most left-wing people on this board) disagree with you, it probably means you're wrong. Just give it up.
Just like the trans phenomenon itself. GD is correct, I’m afraid.
There have been attempts to claim that modern-day transgenderism is part of a long tradition of gender-ROLE-bending in history, such as the Native American personages found in some tribes’ histories who we now refer to in English as “two-spirits,” but it is in fact a modern, Europe- and America-centric phenomenon that arises only from modern, European and American ways of thinking, particularly in the academy. It is also undeniable that its spread and current trendiness is not just traceable to the influence of academic “queer theory” but actually a long time GOAL of that philosophy. Queer theory has long sought to, in its own words, “complicate” gender and sexuality categories and get people to see them as bendable or even breakable. Ostensibly their reason for doing this was to help get people to accept sexual minorities, though in my opinion the queer theorists got so used to “complicating” categories that they’ve forgotten why they do it in the first place. (I think this is rapidly becoming true of self-described “antiracists” but that’s another issue).
Queer theorists are activist philosophers, though: they aren’t looking at what IS true through experimentation like a scientist, but seeking to MAKE true what they believe is to their advantage. They are postmodernists, after all, so the very foundation of their philosophy is the idea that there is no “truth” per se but that power, influence, and ways of communicating “make” truth. They believe if power dynamics and/or centers of influence and/or communicative media change in time, what we take as “truth” can also change in time, even in the absence of any evidence for the new truth, or any discovery of new measurable phenomena of the sort that would cause a scientifically-minded person change his or her mind.
None of this matters. Like all complex human constructs, for example sexual orientation, there are biological, psychological and cultural underpinnings. The reality is that you are confronted with actual people who assert a gender identity to you. You can choose to ignore it or deny it or accommodate it as best you can. The choice is up to both you, the individual in your daily life, and then to the society based on our group ethics and the law.
What an ahistorical and Eurocentric view this is...
Just like the trans phenomenon itself. GD is correct, I’m afraid.
There have been attempts to claim that modern-day transgenderism is part of a long tradition of gender-ROLE-bending in history, such as the Native American personages found in some tribes’ histories who we now refer to in English as “two-spirits,” but it is in fact a modern, Europe- and America-centric phenomenon that arises only from modern, European and American ways of thinking, particularly in the academy. It is also undeniable that its spread and current trendiness is not just traceable to the influence of academic “queer theory” but actually a long time GOAL of that philosophy. Queer theory has long sought to, in its own words, “complicate” gender and sexuality categories and get people to see them as bendable or even breakable. Ostensibly their reason for doing this was to help get people to accept sexual minorities, though in my opinion the queer theorists got so used to “complicating” categories that they’ve forgotten why they do it in the first place. (I think this is rapidly becoming true of self-described “antiracists” but that’s another issue).
Queer theorists are activist philosophers, though: they aren’t looking at what IS true through experimentation like a scientist, but seeking to MAKE true what they believe is to their advantage. They are postmodernists, after all, so the very foundation of their philosophy is the idea that there is no “truth” per se but that power, influence, and ways of communicating “make” truth. They believe if power dynamics and/or centers of influence and/or communicative media change in time, what we take as “truth” can also change in time, even in the absence of any evidence for the new truth, or any discovery of new measurable phenomena of the sort that would cause a scientifically-minded person change his or her mind.
And how did you "learn" all that? Not from anything written by "Western" authors, right?
What you and GD are doing is the classical definition of cultural imperialism. You are interpreting non-Western world through the culturally biased Western lenses.
When she made that claim on the board before, I asked her for evidence. She pointed to Brazilian drag performers who did not have female self-identity. That's like saying there is no trans woman in today's Australia because Courtney Act self-identifies as a male.
When I asked her opinion about this 80 yr old trans woman from Japan who has been known to the public for over half a century, she had no response.
Maki Hirahara (, born November 26, 1942, in Kushiro, Hokkaido, Japan), known as Maki Carrousel (カルーセル 麻紀, Karūseru Maki), is a Japanese transgender actress who is represented by the talent agency Office Carrousel. Film...
In some "Western" people's mind, the reality exists only when it is recorded in a Western language (or even worse, only in English). Everything else is irrelevant to them. I have encountered this attitude from so many people in so many different settings.
And the big irony is that GD called another poster "ethnocentric."
None of this matters. Like all complex human constructs, for example sexual orientation, there are biological, psychological and cultural underpinnings. The reality is that you are confronted with actual people who assert a gender identity to you. You can choose to ignore it or deny it or accommodate it as best you can. The choice is up to both you, the individual in your daily life, and then to the society based on our group ethics and the law.
I think almost everyone accepts that a real “thing” is happening with most trans people (while believing, with evidence to support the belief, that there is also a trans “trend” phenomenon occurring, particularly among teen girls who want to be boys), but we only disagree on whether current medical interventionism is the right path. Even in light of that disagreement, most people don’t want to stop adults from doing what they want to themselves. In fact, I bet if you polled most people in this thread whom the pro-trans side would call bigots or phobes, the only thing they’re against is trans people in sports with their new gender, and the reasons they are against that particular thing are well-documented here and elsewhere.
Though in the end you are wrong that the ideological and philosophical history of transgenderism doesn’t matter. Of course it matters. It is at the apex of how much it matters when trans activists try to claim a long historical throughline of transgenderism going back millennia, but it ALWAYS matters where ideas come from, who pushed them, and why. Know that (of any idea), and you know how much stock to put into any more recent claims related to it that arise later, and what to do when confronted with them. If your daughter comes home suddenly claiming she’s your son, and you know where such ideas come from, who pushes them, and why, your first step can be to find out if there is a trend at her school of girls all “realizing” they are trans all of a sudden, rather than your first step being sending her straight to the clinic to get hormones. Maybe you find there is no such trend and your daughter really does have gender dysphoria, but the true origin of modern transgenderism demands you investigate for signs of theoretical influence and trends in her school.
And how did you "learn" all that? Not from anything written by "Western" authors, right?
What you and GD are doing is the classical definition of cultural imperialism. You are interpreting non-Western world through the culturally biased Western lenses.
When she made that claim on the board before, I asked her for evidence. She pointed to Brazilian drag performers who did not have female self-identity. That's like saying there is no trans woman in today's Australia because Courtney Act self-identifies as a male.
When I asked her opinion about this 80 yr old trans woman from Japan who has been known to the public for over half a century, she had no response.
In some "Western" people's mind, the reality exists only when it is recorded in a Western language (or even worse, only in English). Everything else is irrelevant to them. I have encountered this attitude from so many people in so many different settings.
And the big irony is that GD called another poster "ethnocentric."
Of course I learned about queer theory from Western authors, they were the ones who invented it. Go read their texts from the mid-20th century on, and you’ll see the foundations of the modern “truths” about gender that trans activists like to push. Finding one Asian person who “has been known to the public” since around the time queer theory arises doesn’t prove anything. There was also a (German? Dutch?) guy in the early 1900s who had surgery after surgery to make his body female, and finally died when his body rejected the womb a surgeon implanted. There is also a MtF person who had some media notoriety after WW2 when “she” married a male soldier, and there’s a British FtM from I believe the late 19th/early 20th century who took enough hormones to grow a beard but had to cultivate a misogynist reputation to explain why “he” never married (it was actually so the bride would not pull down the husband’s pants and find a vagina). These pre-queer-theory people show that there probably is a rare condition now called gender dysphoria. They do NOT prove queer theory hasn’t made a purposeful intervention into the thinking of modernity that (1) has huge numbers of people now convinced they’re trans, (has even huger numbers of people confused about what gender is and isn’t, and (3) was not made from disinterested truth-seeking but rather from an activist interest.
And how did you "learn" all that? Not from anything written by "Western" authors, right?
What you and GD are doing is the classical definition of cultural imperialism. You are interpreting non-Western world through the culturally biased Western lenses.
When she made that claim on the board before, I asked her for evidence. She pointed to Brazilian drag performers who did not have female self-identity. That's like saying there is no trans woman in today's Australia because Courtney Act self-identifies as a male.
When I asked her opinion about this 80 yr old trans woman from Japan who has been known to the public for over half a century, she had no response.
In some "Western" people's mind, the reality exists only when it is recorded in a Western language (or even worse, only in English). Everything else is irrelevant to them. I have encountered this attitude from so many people in so many different settings.
And the big irony is that GD called another poster "ethnocentric."
Though I enjoy this intellectual discourse, lifted straight from a college classroom near you, we are still confronted with a real world problem that requires practical solutions. WA has issued a ruling that answers the question as it pertains to elite T&F, concluding that assertions of gender identity will not be accommodated under most any circumstances, at least as it pertains to trans women. Fine, now on to the myriad of other such questions in both the sports world and beyond.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
And how did you "learn" all that? Not from anything written by "Western" authors, right?
What you and GD are doing is the classical definition of cultural imperialism. You are interpreting non-Western world through the culturally biased Western lenses.
When she made that claim on the board before, I asked her for evidence. She pointed to Brazilian drag performers who did not have female self-identity. That's like saying there is no trans woman in today's Australia because Courtney Act self-identifies as a male.
When I asked her opinion about this 80 yr old trans woman from Japan who has been known to the public for over half a century, she had no response.
In some "Western" people's mind, the reality exists only when it is recorded in a Western language (or even worse, only in English). Everything else is irrelevant to them. I have encountered this attitude from so many people in so many different settings.
And the big irony is that GD called another poster "ethnocentric."
Of course I learned about queer theory from Western authors, they were the ones who invented it. Go read their texts from the mid-20th century on, and you’ll see the foundations of the modern “truths” about gender that trans activists like to push. Finding one Asian person who “has been known to the public” since around the time queer theory arises doesn’t prove anything. There was also a (German? Dutch?) guy in the early 1900s who had surgery after surgery to make his body female, and finally died when his body rejected the womb a surgeon implanted. There is also a MtF person who had some media notoriety after WW2 when “she” married a male soldier, and there’s a British FtM from I believe the late 19th/early 20th century who took enough hormones to grow a beard but had to cultivate a misogynist reputation to explain why “he” never married (it was actually so the bride would not pull down the husband’s pants and find a vagina). These pre-queer-theory people show that there probably is a rare condition now called gender dysphoria. They do NOT prove queer theory hasn’t made a purposeful intervention into the thinking of modernity that (1) has huge numbers of people now convinced they’re trans, (has even huger numbers of people confused about what gender is and isn’t, and (3) was not made from disinterested truth-seeking but rather from an activist interest.
Thanks for proving you are another cultural imperialist like GD and RunRagged. It is truly enlightening.
I didn't ask you where queer theory came from. I asked you how you knew the concept of being "transgender" did not exist in non-Western world before it was introduced by the West. I will give you an "E" for your effort.
Of course I learned about queer theory from Western authors, they were the ones who invented it. Go read their texts from the mid-20th century on, and you’ll see the foundations of the modern “truths” about gender that trans activists like to push. Finding one Asian person who “has been known to the public” since around the time queer theory arises doesn’t prove anything. There was also a (German? Dutch?) guy in the early 1900s who had surgery after surgery to make his body female, and finally died when his body rejected the womb a surgeon implanted. There is also a MtF person who had some media notoriety after WW2 when “she” married a male soldier, and there’s a British FtM from I believe the late 19th/early 20th century who took enough hormones to grow a beard but had to cultivate a misogynist reputation to explain why “he” never married (it was actually so the bride would not pull down the husband’s pants and find a vagina). These pre-queer-theory people show that there probably is a rare condition now called gender dysphoria. They do NOT prove queer theory hasn’t made a purposeful intervention into the thinking of modernity that (1) has huge numbers of people now convinced they’re trans, (has even huger numbers of people confused about what gender is and isn’t, and (3) was not made from disinterested truth-seeking but rather from an activist interest.
I’m pretty simple minded. Can I ask you the point you are trying to make? Is it that the concept of transness was invented by late 20th century intellectuals and so as individuals and as a society we are justified in ignoring and not accommodating any gender identity claims? Is that what you do? I’m asking you with no rancor. I just want to know how this understanding of queer theory translates into your daily approach to this issue and what you recommend we do collectively?
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
Thanks for proving you are another cultural imperialist like GD and RunRagged. It is truly enlightening.
I didn't ask you where queer theory came from. I asked you how you knew the concept of being "transgender" did not exist in non-Western world before it was introduced by the West. I will give you an "E" for your effort.
Mate, over the years you've hurled all sorts of slurs at me in your efforts to portray anyone who disagrees with you and the sexist gender identity ideology that you espouse as ill-informed eejits and right-wing bigots. You've shown a special penchant for slagging off and sneering at women who speak up for female people and female-only sports, spaces and services in particular, calling us hateful and old-fashioned. But this is the first time to my knowledge you've called me "a cultural imperialist."
Please provide evidence of posts I have made on LRC that back up your claim that I am a "cultural imperialist."
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
Biological men still have no business competing in women's sports. The reality is not going to change. But people want a "cause" and to establish some self-image of virtue.
How it got to the stage that it did - baffles me and was incredibly damaging to women’s sport and those women athletes negatively impacted by it all. They deserve a massive apology. medals, fame and fortune can’t be retrieved which is shameful.
The entire matter comes down to having/being XX or XY and that is it no matter what the individual may think or want to be identified as.
Thanks for proving you are another cultural imperialist like GD and RunRagged. It is truly enlightening.
I didn't ask you where queer theory came from. I asked you how you knew the concept of being "transgender" did not exist in non-Western world before it was introduced by the West. I will give you an "E" for your effort.
Mate, over the years you've hurled all sorts of slurs at me in your efforts to portray anyone who disagrees with you and the sexist gender identity ideology that you espouse as ill-informed eejits and right-wing bigots. You've shown a special penchant for slagging off and sneering at women who speak up for female people and female-only sports, spaces and services in particular, calling us hateful and old-fashioned. But this is the first time to my knowledge you've called me "a cultural imperialist."
Please provide evidence of posts I have made on LRC that back up your claim that I am a "cultural imperialist."
Your post on urinals in women's bathrooms. You forgot about that?
Melissa Bishop, Joanna Jozwik and Lynsey Sharp should get their medals. What happened in the women's 800m in 2016 was grossly unfair to them.
This is the tragedy. How much does Bishop's career change if she gets to call herself Olympic Champion? Even a bronze medal would have been career-defining for Lynsey Sharp - it could have been the difference between being a funded athlete and not staying in the sport. You can't get that back. Even if you give those women the medals they deserve, they've lost 7 years of their subsequent career and earning potential that comes with being Olympic medallists. What's worse is that this ban has come with no new evidence - what we know now about the advantages of DSD athletes, we knew back in 2016 and WA sat on their hands.
Anyone else remember when Twitter libs were making fun of Lynsey Sharp and sending death threats after she complained about DSD athletes in the Olympics? Ridiculous people.
I think almost everyone accepts that a real “thing” is happening with most trans people (while believing, with evidence to support the belief, that there is also a trans “trend” phenomenon occurring, particularly among teen girls who want to be boys), but we only disagree on whether current medical interventionism is the right path. Even in light of that disagreement, most people don’t want to stop adults from doing what they want to themselves. In fact, I bet if you polled most people in this thread whom the pro-trans side would call bigots or phobes, the only thing they’re against is trans people in sports with their new gender, and the reasons they are against that particular thing are well-documented here and elsewhere.
Though in the end you are wrong that the ideological and philosophical history of transgenderism doesn’t matter. Of course it matters. It is at the apex of how much it matters when trans activists try to claim a long historical throughline of transgenderism going back millennia, but it ALWAYS matters where ideas come from, who pushed them, and why. Know that (of any idea), and you know how much stock to put into any more recent claims related to it that arise later, and what to do when confronted with them. If your daughter comes home suddenly claiming she’s your son, and you know where such ideas come from, who pushes them, and why, your first step can be to find out if there is a trend at her school of girls all “realizing” they are trans all of a sudden, rather than your first step being sending her straight to the clinic to get hormones. Maybe you find there is no such trend and your daughter really does have gender dysphoria, but the true origin of modern transgenderism demands you investigate for signs of theoretical influence and trends in her school.
I asked you a simple question. You are confronted with an individual at work or school or wherever with a particular gender identity claim. Do you ignore it, deny it or try to accommodate it? You certainly don’t launch a psychological/sociological investigation, or do you?
