Why did Geb underperform at WXC and why was Tergat so good?

Running on road-outdoor track-cross country-indoor track all require somewhat specific skills; not so much of physiological differences; be to good. Coughlan was absolutely the Chairman of the Board but never quite fulfilled his greatness outdoor as much as he should have. Inddor track, with its tight curve and often banked surface requires special skills and mentality than outdoor track. Great indoor runners are usually "quicker" rather than "fast" and with choppier strides. Same with XC and rubberized track. Bouncy strides of Geb usually works better on harder surface like rubberized track and/or road--more so probably on track than road; even choppier strides like most Japanese runners demonstrate are better on the hard surface of the road and a long event like a marathon (I was actually surprised how well Geb ran his marathons). Tergat, even though he's tall and leggy, has very smooth style and is not "bouncy" and very very controlled--huge advantage on uneven surface of XC.

You probably would have to take "personal preferance" into account as well. I don't know if Geb does or does not like XC but it really looks like he's not as into it as Bekele or Tergat. Kenyans seem to look at World Cross as THE championship race and take lots of pride in doing well there. Also being a great runner alone may not make that specificity either. I remember asking coach Nakamura why Seko never ran World Cross (with his devastating kick and middle distance background and marathon endurance), his reply was very simple: "He doesn't know how to run XC." His legs were very fragile that he prefer not to run on uneven surface so he never quite train for XC though he probably could have done very well.

Nobby has it. Every athlete has their preferences. To borrow from an old adage, "there are courses for horses." So true.

I think that until Geb looses that "bounce" in his stride, he's not going to be able to take the world record--I think it's just too much of a beating on his legs for them to hold up for 26.2 miles. It's funny how that muscular action that gave him the edge over Tergat on the track now works against him on the roads. Assuming that Geb, Tergat, and Bekele are probably close to identical as far as heart/lung function, are their relatively small differences simply a function of muscle/stride variation?

mnbvcxz wrote:

I think that until Geb looses that "bounce" in his stride, he's not going to be able to take the world record--I think it's just too much of a beating on his legs for them to hold up for 26.2 miles. It's funny how that muscular action that gave him the edge over Tergat on the track now works against him on the roads. Assuming that Geb, Tergat, and Bekele are probably close to identical as far as heart/lung function, are their relatively small differences simply a function of muscle/stride variation?

Geb beat Tergat in the 1/2 marathon WC's on the road. I guess that "bounce" didn't hurt him against Tergat there, right?

And Geb has run faster in first 2 marathons than Tergat ran in his first 2 marathons. Again, I guess it didn't hurt him too much.

Tergat has beaten Geb head-to-head in the marathon, and has the WR, but that might be more due to his experience in the event (it took him several tries before reaching those hights).

I bet Geb will beat Tergat in London, and possibly get the WR. If he does, what you will say then???

HE DID NOT FOCUS ON CROSS COUNTRY

Exactly MI Runner. And in one race where he was doing well he fell on a log and slipped back making it hard to catch up to the front again.

Umm, what do you expect me to say or do? Gnash my teeth, rend my garments, wail and moan because some guy I've never met and probably never will runs really fast? Like others, I noticed that Geb's powerful stride seems to be a disadvantage to him in the marathon, compared to another runner's stride--if he breaks the record, beats Tergat, ascends to heaven, good for him. I simply find it interesting from a performance point of view--maybe I can learn something. Unlike many people on this board, my own personal life is not affected by how well an athlete that I will never run against does.

The Kenyans also worked together to ensure that Tergat did well. Geb was pretty much out there on his own--it seems like that would have made for a huge difference.

malmo wrote:

Nobby has it. Every athlete has their preferences. To borrow from an old adage, "there are courses for horses." So true.

Bekele would seem to have it all. 9 XC titles, 2 10,000m world titles, world records at 10,000 and 5,000.

What more should the kid have?

michigan runner wrote:

HE DID NOT FOCUS ON CROSS COUNTRY

He didn't focus on cross-country because he consistently got beat. Geb was a superior track runner than Tergat with slightly faster PRs (his 1500 is significantly faster) but primarily because of his explosive kick. Geb ran cross as a junior and early in his pro career but then stopped entirely during his prime.

Give Tergat his due, in cross, on his best day he beats Geb on Geb's best day. Geb didn't like getting beat and having to face a bunch of Kenyans all by himself - the Ethiopian depth we have now wasn't there in the mid-90s.

geb is better because I believe he was did not lose like bekele did even at little meets bekele has gotten beat geb even won a 1500 indoor title?? or outdoor geb is the man

if we are at the point where WR are being determined by how well suited your stride is to your particular event, there will be few WR's set ever again. Its all about guts and training my friends.

Yes, I certainly think that this has something to do with it. And, if you go back and look at Bekele's cross country wins, he always had a handful of his countrymen surrounding him in the early going helping him out. The Kenyans were masterful at doing this for Tergat back in the day. Recently, the Ethiopians have adopted these philosophies, while the great Kenyan "team running" has seemingly fallen apart. Seems to be a combination of Kenyan Athletics, the loss of Mike Boit, and a young, "leaderless" (ie, no Tergat) group of Kenyan runners that have led to this demise in great team running. So, Tergat and Bekele had a team that Geb didn't seem to have...but, still, Geb is/was good enough to win some on his own, eh?Hoovis

mnbvcxz wrote:

The Kenyans also worked together to ensure that Tergat did well. Geb was pretty much out there on his own--it seems like that would have made for a huge difference.

That was a rather strange response:

Yeah, that's exactly what I implied that I expected you to do if Geb reigns supreme on the roads. I was simply pointing out that your theory about Geb's possible lack of suitably for the roads, due to stride mechanics, vs Tergat's apparent better suitability, is belied by that facts of Geb 1/2 marathon WC's win over Tergat, his 10mile WR, and his first 2 marathons being faster than Tergat's first 2 marathons. Tergat has progressed to a WR. But if Geb beats him head to head in London, and beats his WR at some point, than I would ONLY expect you to reconsider your theory based on all of the above evidence that contradicts it (some of this "evidence" has already occured, some may occur).

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. He's only run 2. And it may not be his stride per se, but simply that his best natural aerobic/anaerobic ability may lie in 5k/10k. It could be as much about other metabolic/phsiological factors besides stride mechanics.

Who said it was? You gave a theory, I countered it with some examples of Geb's success on the roads and against Tergat at 1/2 marathon (and compared their initial marathon attempts), and then implied that you might surpised by Geb yet and have to throw your theory in the garbage. Only time will tell... We will soon know more about Geb's suitablity for the marathon and the roads.

(also of course, Geb is not in his absolute prime. One must wonder if he attempted marathons 5 years earlier, how well he would have done. )

I remember an Adidas commercial (I think you can still view it on their web site) where Geb actually says, "I don't like cross country". This doesn't really get us very far, however, because it is still a chicken and egg question. Does he not like xc because he isn't as good at it as track or is he not as good because he doesn't like it as much?

As some already said:Geb is a bouncer, not the best style for muddy XC races, but i don't know why it should be bad for the road, maybe for the marathon because of the duration but from what i read and heard Gebre did specific training to change his style for the marathon, not so hard on his toes.

Maybe it has something to do with why Tergat always got killed when it counted like the Olympics, it couldn't have been because Geb. was always peaking in August not January, World XC is the small time compared to the Olympics or T&F World... come on ppl learn a little logic or go back to dyestat...

use your own advice. Did Tergat realy get killed? He lost by less than a sec. World Coss is alway in March and is held in high regards in Kenya. Plus its usally right around they run World Indoors so most are peaking or near peaking for that most years. I do rember reading a artical were Geb said he didn't like coss because the way Kenyas raced {they would box him in or throw elbos ect.} and his teams at that time were not as strong.

Tergat's titles are more impressive because the field wasn't chopped up by the new long/short format.

Alan