Double Threshold - One Session Cycling

Yes, you'd likely get a benefit, assuming you could recover from the work.

The physiology of double threshold workouts hasn't been studied at scale. The idea behind doing 2 sessions of around 30 minutes each (versus one longer session of 40-60 minutes) came from Marius Bakken and experiments on himself. Bakken was really smart and really fast, but that doesn't mean you have to copy his sessions in order to see results.

This recent blog post from Marius could be helpful.

mariusbakken.com

The Norwegian model of lactate threshold training and lactate controlled approach to training. A look at some of the concepts, history, and keys to improvement. I wrote most of the articles found…

Link:http://www.mariusbakken.com/the-norweg...

I did this last year with success. Was in the 2nd half of a 3month training cycle and wanted to get in top biking shape for an event. My key workouts require 2-3 days recovery so im limited to two per week (one being a long run). So the only way to keep the running workout and add the biking was to stack them on the same day.

Would do my running workout on lunch break then make sure to fuel prior to cooldown to get muscles replenished asap followed by good nutrition afterwards. Then when i got home hopped on the bike to knockout another serious workout followed by elevated nutrition that night & the next morning.

I'm doing this now. I'm only two weeks into it, so no tangible results yet. I'm 55 and my right knee just won't allow me to do the running necessary for me to get "real fitness" but the bike allows me to get in a double without the impact and reduces the chance that I spend time sitting on the sideline unable to run at all.

The key is to really hit it hard on the bike. You can't just sit there peddling for an hour, you need to get that HR up there for a sustained period of time.

It's not going to hinder your performance so why not give it a try?

As much as I want to love biking for run cross training, I haven't found intensity transfers much besides maybe helping on hills in trail races. I think it's a great way to get some long aerobic/easy sessions in without impact, but anytime I try to actually get my HR up to a comparable amount to intense running, my legs get sore and impact my running. Maybe this would be different for you if your biking muscles are better trained. Regardless, I think if you are focused on running and want a lower impact way to introduce double threshold, a second session on the elliptical or incline treadmill walking would be a better choice.

Bike HR will be at least 10-15 beats per minute lower than running HR due to running having body weight impact thus your running HR will be higher. If your Threshold HR is 160 while running, try to use 140-150 for biking. Go by effort and perceived exertion if using bike.

There's a guy on my strava who logs 100s of miles every week on zwift (is that what it's called) and he can't run a lick under 3:15 for the full. Also does 15 mile long runs at 7:30. So no, bike is useless.

Hmmm. Have you heard of a place called Kona?

Last time they had a race there (October last year) more than a hundred ran a BQ time after a 2.4mile Swim and a 112 mile bike

Ergo, mega bike miles per week dont hinder your run

I experimented with this last year. I did running speed session tuesday mornings and a hard bike session in the afternoon. But I found i couldn't recover so i couldn't do other quality sessions until the following tuesday.

I gave that up and started doing a hard run on sunday, long easy run tuesday, and a hard bike workout thursdays. This gets me 2 high heart race sessions in one week which would be similar to the hard run/hard bike on the same day. But now the bike sessions are are a higher quality where I can really get the HR up since my legs aren't tired from the hard run.

I'm finding this pattern keeps me a bit fresher. But...i'm close to 60 so you may have better success.

Anecdotally I have found that after long runs a bike ride the same day will flush out my legs pretty well. If I don’t do the bike ride I’m way more likely to be sore

And as a counter to your anecdote, my anecdote is that i also log 100s of miles every week on zwift, while running 50-60 miles a week, running 5 days per week. I’m targeting sub 2:30 in the marathon.

bike is good.

Same here. I bike easy after hard and long runs and feel like it’s good for recovery. I just make sure the HR stays at easy run effort.

Not true for me. You must be undertrained in biking.

I've biked since the early 90s. My HR on the bike is generally lower for the same RPE than running. Even after 13 years of running fairly consistently. (and I suck at running really)

I can't explain your data. I have decades of experience in both sports and have never seen any difference in HR for RPE biking and running.

The best triathletes in the world are cranking out double threshold sessions with the two workouts being in different disciplines. There are definitely benefits to be made but it depends on your volume/ability to recover from sessions. Plus if your focus is on running then you're going to benefit from two running sessions if you can build up to that. The idea is to take maybe a normal 12k day of threshold repeats and to do 15-16k in two sessions. Adjust for level. A pro might do a little more. A newer runner might do a little less. But really you're not doing that much more work by doing a second session. If you're doing a run/bike double threshold you're saving some of the pounding on your legs but you're still building strength/power. It's just a little less specific unless you want to try a duathlon or triathlon.

Not true or you are an outlier. HR on bike is always lower than running at the same RPE. You don't have propulsion and impact to deal with. Theres a reason you can ride for hours and hours on end but you cant run train the same way.

Not true or you are an outlier. HR on bike is always lower than running at the same RPE. You don't have propulsion and impact to deal with. Theres a reason you can ride for hours and hours on end but you cant run train the same way.

I am about to experiment with the same thing. Thresh session in the AM then an elliptical thresh session in the PM. Another variant I wondered about could be to do a session late PM then another one early the following morning with a sleep in between.

I agree. I would have to work insanely hard on the bike to have the same HR as my threshold runs.