geb is a stud
geb is a stud
No doubt. But I still think that a 12 - 15 person event that will be run on a separate course is no more than a glorified time trial.
oops i meant 11k feet.
yeah its's a time trial, but it will still be impressive as hell if he breaks the WR.
So I should ditch my "beat Geb" singlet?
mnbvcxz wrote:
No doubt. But I still think that a 12 - 15 person event that will be run on a separate course is no more than a glorified time trial.
What kind of stupid nonsense is that.....Every world record is basically a timetrial. It's the guy trying to break the wr...running against TIME. How is this any different? El G's mile world record was ran with basically no competition. He followed his rabbit's, and then was ahead by a ton until the late charging Ngeny made up insane ground in the last 100. Bekele's 10k wr was ran solo most of the way winning by 3 seconds was it?. Geb's 10k wr was ran solo most of the way. Kipketer's 800 wr was ran solo most of hte way with a rabit leading him through 400. Michael JOhnson basically ran solo in his 400 wr. How is having a 12-15 man race where Geb will be doing most of the work anyways any different then any other WR attempt?
Is it Gebs fault that there's probably only 2 or 3 people in the world who could probably handle the pace for 11 miles that he's attempting to run for about 13.1.
mrr82 wrote:
El G's mile world record was ran with basically no competition. He followed his rabbit's, and then was ahead by a ton until the late charging Ngeny made up insane ground in the last 100.
What? Ngeny was on his ass the whole way.
It's simple--leave the time trials on the track. Tergat didn't need separate courses to run his records nor did Radcliffe, Jones, Khannouchi, etc. It seems like Geb hasn't quite gotten the fact that he's no longer a trackstar . . . being a roadwhore (and I mean that in the best sense) means running the same race as everyone else, not some one-shot deal.
Tergat needed Sammy Korir.
geb doesn't have to get shit... he is probably the best (and if not the best then in the top two) runners of all time. if he wants to set records that way, so be it. he has earned his right to do that... it's not like we can possibly question his credentials
?
I thought they race on a different course cause the other one has too much elevation drop or something for an official World Record?
mnbvcxz wrote:
It's simple--leave the time trials on the track. Tergat didn't need separate courses to run his records nor did Radcliffe, Jones, Khannouchi, etc. It seems like Geb hasn't quite gotten the fact that he's no longer a trackstar . . . being a roadwhore (and I mean that in the best sense) means running the same race as everyone else, not some one-shot deal.
Don't be stupid; Gebrselassie's record MUST be on the designed course because the half marathon that goes with the Rock and Roll Marathon is not IAAF-certified. They had to measure out a separate course for him because there is nothing else.
It is amusing that some of you seem to blame Geb for trying for a world record. What an asinine train of thought that about 90% of all threads degenerate into.
hrunner wrote:
geb doesn\'t have to get shit... he is probably the best (and if not the best then in the top two) runners of all time. if he wants to set records that way, so be it. he has earned his right to do that... it\'s not like we can possibly question his credentials
who's the other one?
I don't begrudge him his greatness, his records, or his attempts to set records; however, I think (as I am free to do whether or not I am his equal) that this particular attempt is lame. Having a dozen hired guns to block the wind and drop out while you run on a specially designed, closed course is a time trial, not a race, and belongs on the track where that kind of thing is what passes for competition outside of the Olympics and Worlds. But why not make it interesting? Why not bring in some real contenders and make a race out of it? Tergat's rabbit at Berlin nearly beat him, yet he pulled it out and set the record--I don't remember him complaining. Khannouchi had to race against a whole field--I don't remember hearing about him asking for the rest of the elite field to be held back or his own special course. It's not like there aren't any other guys in the world who could break the record as well--most road records are fairly soft compared to track records. No other major road race that I know of goes out of their way (other than providing rabbits) to do this when a record attempt is being made, so why should this be any different? Obviously, he's going to do this, so I don't think those of you who defend him so vigorously need to worry that he's going to read this and say "I ought to rethink this"; but ask yourself: Is this what you want to see as the future of the sport? I prefer races, not "events".
i was putting kenny b in the same category, others may disagree
oblong wrote:
hrunner wrote:geb doesn't have to get shit... he is probably the best (and if not the best then in the top two) runners of all time. if he wants to set records that way, so be it. he has earned his right to do that... it's not like we can possibly question his credentials
who's the other one?
my gosh, the future of the sport is going??? like it or not this is where the sport has been for 50 years... the exact same things were said when Bannister broke 4 for the mile...
and I love it when people say that tergat's rabbit almost beat him, yes this is true but it was a hired rabbit it just turned out to be a really good one who did his job and then if anything provided EXTRA incentive for Tergat to dip under the world record.
The rabbit did his job and then pushed Tergat even more than expected.
mnbvcxz wrote: but ask yourself: Is this what you want to see as the future of the sport? I prefer races, not "events".
Well, sometimes they both are interesting. And it's not like Geb doesn't like "races" too! He's challenged every top runner of his generation from El G at 1500 to Tergat at the 1/2 marathon and marathon, and KK at the marathon. Jesus Christ, the man RACES and WINS World champsionships/Olympic in 1500, 3000, 10,000 and 1/2 marathon, and will next attempt Marathon gold.
And I also agree with others that just because there won't 5000 joggers behind him, this will not be much different than many other WR attempts on the road that other top starts have undertaken. yeah, 5000 joggers behind him make it "more a real race." HARDLY.
You want Geb to enter a RACE? For him to enter a REAL competition? Well I guess you will have to wait allllllll the way until April for that, when Geb lines up against one of the greatest marathon fields ever assembled. Will he be back in your good graces after that challenge, or will you forever hold this 1/2 marathon WR attempt against him?
Roll on London 2006 for the race of all races
oblong wrote:
who's the other one?
There are actually two, and only two runners who could make a legitimate case for being better than Gebrselassie.
The first is El Guerrouj.
The second is Bekele.
Examine:
World records:
Gebrselassie has 20 world records (screw the IAAF; 27:02 in Doha is a WR, pacing car and all the rest) set indoors at 2,000m, 3,000m (2), 2 miles, and 5,000m (3) and outdoors at 2 miles (2), 5,000m (4), and 10,000m (3), and on the road at 10 kilometers, 10 miles, 15km (en route), and a road ekiden as well as the fastest ever debut marathon until Rutto came along and broke that.
El Guerrouj has set 6 world records indoors at 1500m and the mile and outdoors at 1500m, the mile, and 2,000m. He also set one in a road ekiden in 1994 with a 13:43 5,000m leg.
Bekele has set 4 world records indoors at 5,000m and outdoors at 5,000m and 10,000m (2).
World Championships:
Gebrselassie won the World 10,000m Championship 4 times in 1993, 1995, 1997, 1999, got the bronze in 2001, and got silver in 2003. He also won the silver in the 5,000 in 1993.
El Guerrouj won gold in the 1500m in 1997, 1999, 2001, and 2003, and also won silver in the 1500m in 1995 and silver in the 5,000m in 2003.
Bekele won the gold in the 10,000m in 2003 and 2005 and won bronze in the 5,000m in 2003.
Olympics:
Gebrselassie won the 1996 and 2000 Olympic title in the 10,000m and got 5th (injured) in 2004.
El Guerrouj came last in Atlanta 1996, got silver in Sydney 2000, and won double gold in the 1500m and 5,000m in Athens 2004.
Bekele won gold in the 10,000m in Athens 2004 and won silver in the 5,000m.
Racing streaks:
For argument's sake, we will use races indoors and outdoors on the track. That means the 800-10,000m for Gebrselassie and Bekele and 1500m-5000m for El Guerrouj. Cross-country does not count, as El Guerrouj never ran cross-country and Gebrselassie raced it sparingly.
The seasonal records will start with whatever year they began to establish dominance. For Gebrselassie that was 1995, El Guerrouj 1996, and Bekele 2003.
Gebrselassie, from 1995 to 2000, raced 74 times on the track from 800m to 10,000m. If you discount non-specialty races (anything outside his 3000m-10000m range) he amassed a 51 race UNBEATEN streak. His seasonal records:
1995: 10-0
1996: 8-1 (lost with blisters to Komen in Zurich, 12:45.09 to 12:52.70 (jogged last 100m in 19 seconds))
1997: 14-2 (lost to El Guerrouj indoors in WR 1500m; came 5th in indoor 800m in 1:49)
1998: 15-1 (came 6th in indoor 800m, 1:50)
1999: 16-0
2000: 6-0
2001: 0-1 (Only race all year, lost to Kamathi and Mezgebu with bronchitis/groin strain)
His overall record was 69-5, a 93.2% winning percentage.
El Guerrouj, from 1996 to 2004, raced 119 times on the track from 1500m to 5,000m
1996: 14-1 (fell in Atlanta)
1997: 17-1 (surprised from behind in GP Final)
1998: 13-0
1999: 10-0
2000: 9-1 (overtrained and was outkicked in Sydney)
2001: 16-0
2002: 12-0
2003: 11-3 (lost 5,000m to Cherono; eased off in 5K heat in WC; outkicked by Kipchoge)
2004: 8-3 (outkicked in Rome by 8 men; outkicked by Lagat in Zurich; eased up in 5K heat)
His overall record during this time was 110-9, a 92.4% winning percentage. He compiled a 23 race, a 30 race, and a 32 race UNBEATEN streak during this time
Bekele:
From 2003 to 2005, Bekele raced
2003: 8-2 (lost to Sihine in Ethiopia at altitude and to Kipchoge and El Guerrouj in the WC’s)
2004: 9-0
2005: 9-2 (lost two early races, one miscounting the laps, another short on training after mourning the death of his fiancée)
His overall record during this time was 26-4, a 86.7% winning percentage. However, cross-country has played an integral part in Bekele’s racing and so, including his cross-country racing, his record in this three year period is 40-4, or 14 races unbeaten in cross-country. This does not include his 2002 unbeaten streak and world championships.
Other Honors:
Gebrselassie won world indoor titles at 1500 and 3K in 1999 and at 3K in 2003.
Bekele has won 8 WXC golds, completing the double 4 years running.
Gebrselassie won the Golden League Jackpot in 1998.
El Guerrouj won the Golden League Jackpot in 1998, 2001, and 2002.
El Guerrouj won the world indoor 3K title in 2001.
Comments:
Clearly El Guerrouj has raced much more because the 1500 does not take as much of a toll as a 5K or a 10K does. During some seasons he raced exclusively 1500 (1996) or only the mile and the 1500, so he specializes far more than the other two.
Bekele has much less experience and so has a ways to go speaking of longevity. His cross-country record is unbelievable.
Gebrselassie has far and away the best range.
They are all remarkable, the types that come along once in a lifetime, and all three were here at the same time.
Gebrselassie’s record versus Bekele is 2-4: Bekele won at Hengelo 2003 over 10K, Paris 2003 over 10K, Rome 2003 over 5K, and Athens 2004 over 10K. Gebrselassie beat Bekele, ironically, in a cross-country race in 2001 in France and in the Great Ethiopian Run in 2002.
Gebrselassie’s record versus El Guerrouj is 1-1: He beat him in Seoul over 5,000m in 1992, 13:36 to 13:43, and lost indoors in 1997 3:31.18 WR to 3:32.39.
El Guerrouj’s record versus Bekele is 2-1: He has only lost in a heat, Athens 2004 5K, and beat Bekele in 2003 and 2004 in championship 5K finals in a sprint.
Personal records:
Gebrselassie:
800m- 1:46 (training)
1500m- 3:31.76
Mile- 3:52.39
2,000m-4:52.86i WR
3,000m- 7:25.09
2 miles- 8:01.08 WR
5,000m- 12:39.36 WR
10,000m- 26:22.75 WR
10km- 27:02 WR
15km- 41:22 WR
10 miles- 44:24 WR
Half-marathon- 59:40
Marathon- 2:06:20
El Guerrouj:
800- 1:47.18
1500m- 3:26.00 WR
Mile- 3:43.13 WR
2,000m- 4:44.79 WR
3,000m- 7:23.09
2 miles- 8:06.61i
5,000m- 12:50.24
Bekele:
3,000m- 7:30.67
2 miles- 8:15.49
5,000m- 12:37.35 WR
10,000m- 26:20.31 WR
mnbvcxz wrote:
Why not bring in some real contenders and make a race out of it? Tergat's rabbit at Berlin nearly beat him, yet he pulled it out and set the record--I don't remember him complaining.
Gebrselassie is not responsible for his competitors' inability to keep pace with him.
I don't think you realize that gathering a good field is very, very hard. It is NOT as easy as telephoning Tergat and inviting him for a weekend's entertainment over 13.1 miles in Phoenix.
There are other racers on the line who are free to follow.
What you described as a "time trial" is a race. The race is to see who is fittest and gets there first, regardless of whether or not someone makes the pace. Gebrselassie wants a record and does not want distractions around him so that he must slow in order to win. He has shown he can win. He has not yet shown that he can run 4:30 pace for an hour, and that is what he wants to do.
Khannouchi had to race against a whole field--I don't remember hearing about him asking for the rest of the elite field to be held back or his own special course.
Elites do this ALL THE TIME.
When El Guerrouj made his 5K attempt in 2003 he allowed no other sub-13:10 runner to enter. Cherono had a 13:11 PB before he ran 12:48 that night. Same with Coe and OVett and Morceli and all the others ducking each other. The point sometimes is to RUN FAST. Pure racing indifferent to time is for championships.
It's not like there aren't any other guys in the world who could break the record as well--most road records are fairly soft compared to track records.
The half marathon world record is not soft, nor can I imagine what others you are referring to as "soft."
The 13:00 5K of Sammy Kipketer was set on a course in the middle of April that features 2 180 degree turns. It is hard to go under 13:00 on a track; Kipketer went out in 3:58 for the mile and he's a 12:52 man on the track.
The 27:02 of Geb is likewise ridiculously fast, not soft. Ditto to the 44:24 10 mile, which is 4:26 pace for three quarters of an hour, and to the marathon world record of Tergat at 4:46 pace for 26.2 miles.
The half marathon WR is 4:30 mile pace for, in effect, one hour. 4:30 mile pace is a challenge to the average person for 50 yards, to a very good high school runner for 1200-1600m, to a very good college runner for 5,000m, and to a very good elite runner for 10,000m.
He is going to do that for 13.1 miles. That is a fantastic prospect, race, time trial, whatever you call it, it is something exciting.
That's interesting if El G's pr for 800M is only 1:47. Too bad he didn't drop a 1:43.XX in there a few years ago at his peak since this is his only blemish in an unbelievable set of pr's. It would be pretty sweet to see Geb finish with a 58 and change time for the half, I'll be rooting for it. Sub 59 minutes = 4:30 mile pace or under by the way. Go out to your local track and see if you can do one mile at that pace.