Training plan for sub-3:00 marathon?

Why do a marathon if you only want to run 40 miles a week? I doubt you will break 3 hours unless you are very talented.

It's not that I only want to do 40 but work gets in the way. Not sure how talented I am but can run a mile in 5:45 and current VO2Max as per my watch is 51. Probably not much to go on.

If I do somehow manage to make time for 50 mpw, what would be the recommendation?

When was your last race? What is your marathon PR? Are you guessing on the threshold pace or do you have a recent race result to back this up?

Too many variables. You are asking if it is possible extend your 15k race pace to marathon pace over 25 weeks. Not impossible for all, but no guarantee either. If you are in sub 40 10k/sub 1:30 half shape now off of 15 mpw you may have a shot.

40 mpw is a difficult constraint, I imagine from what others have said low mileage necessitates a lot of steady long runs at goal marathon pace, and you'd still need to get in an appropriate long run (18-20mi) every now and then. You say your threshold pace is 6:50, which is pretty much exactly where you need to be to break 3 hours, so do a lot of 8 milers at that pace until it becomes comfortable and you can imagine sustaining it for much longer

pavement88 is correct - too many variables...

I did a 2:59 on 30 miles per week, but I had run 2:45 the year before.

Tell us more about your PRs and current fitness!

Haven’t quite got enough information to tell you how realistic sub 3 is, but I’m more than happy to talk more about things. I can write you a bespoke training plan based on your time constraints with work, plus give you any strength and conditioning type stuff you need.

rojo?

The marathon is a test of your endurance. Your body needs to be able to go for a long time without giving up. It needs consistent training in the aerobic heartrate zone for extended periods every day or almost every day to get close to your potential. It doesnt have to be all running, cycling or something else could go alongside the running. But if you dont have the time to make your body aerobically strong, you wont go as fast as you could.

The other guy said a 40 minute 10k might be enough, i think you need a 38 minute 10k but even that wont be enough if you dont have the necessary endurance.

Replying to the questions posed above - all here in this post.

Last year I had to stop running for ~7-8 months. Then in the fall, I restarted running - about 5 miles a week. About a month in, ran a 5K just to see where my base was. That race was at a 7:10 pace.

Since then, I've gradually increased my mileage to the current 15-20 mpw (varies depending on work). In November I ran 40 miles total and in December 60 miles. (Holidays and work got in the way.)

This month, I'm on track to do closer to 80 miles. Longest run is around 8 miles.

Today, ran a 5 miler with 3 of it in the middle @6:55 which felt okay. I could've run another mile or 2 at that pace but had to be back home to take a work call. Watch tells me my current threshold pace is 6:50. Today, I cannot not imagine running at that pace for 8 miles.

Last weekend, went to the track for the first time in over a decade. Ran 4 X 400m in 88-89s each with 80s rest between each. Then 5 min rest, then a 200m in 35s. Then 5 min rest, then 2 X 100 in 16s each with 2 min rest. Any suggestions on what changes I should make to this 400m workout?

Yes, I understand there are too many variables and the 40mpw is a difficult constraint, but all your answers are encouraging. As I said, I'd like to try and will try to get to 50+ mpw but when work happens, I just don't get time. I'll definitely trying running more 8 milers at a 6:50 pace.

Thank you all.

Thanks, I understand. I do hiking and backpacking in the summer/fall. Backpacking trips are about 8-12 miles a day with a 25 lb backpack, usually at 8,000-10,000 ft elevation.

For running, I guess I have some work to do. It's sometimes tough to get away from work commitments but I'm going to try my best this year.

Use pfitz or Daniels. They have plans In your mileage.

40mpw is sufficient if you have the talent.

I got close to sub 3 around 40mpw, so I have no doubts someone with slightly more talent than me could do it.

Hi! I personally consider that running at a certain level (sub-3 can be that certain level) cannot be done under 30mpw. For a marathon, 40 miles seems like a great starting mileage but do not expect to rocket a sub-3 for sure.

Have a great day :)

It can be done on lower mileage, but just don’t lose the long run. You want to build up to 3 hours of easy running, plain and simple. That will likely be a 21-24 mile long run.

my issue with a lot of beginner running programs is that when they reduce weekly running volume, they basically lower each individual day’s mileage by a percentage. So a 40mpw runner runs basically half of what an 80mpw runner would do every day.

A three hour marathoner should have ~3 hour long run whether they are doing 40mpw or 120mpw.

it could probably be done on 0 miles per week with lots of elliptical and biking and some history of running when younger

I’ve done it 4 times on 40mpw or less. Try to get one run with some LT pace mileage per week and one long run per week (with MP miles if your weekly volume is low). Every few weeks throw some faster stuff in there, mile repeats at 5-8K pace. This was in my early 30s.

Trying to come back and do it again. Ran a 3:22 in September and shooting for a 3:07 in a couple weeks. I’ve been back about 6 months. In my mid 40s now and I’m doing 40mpw average, but have a couple 50 mile weeks and unfortunately a couple 25 mile weeks (no long run).

I loosely follow the Pfitz 18/55 marathon plan. I agree it can be done, but it is a very aggressive goal at your starting point, time frame and age.

Not trying to be negative whatsoever, but it seems like you may be setting yourself up for disappointment and/or failure with a goal of sub-3.

-Your recent mileage has been very inconsistent (last year you indicate that you stopped running for 7-8 months, and you're currently running 15-20 miles per week, with a long run of 8 miles). That's not a good base for sub-3 unless you've built a solid foundation over several years prior, have run solid halfs/marathons in the past, or you're incredibly durable and are working with a big engine and some talent.

-Your mile time is currently 5:45. The mile is a very poor conversion benchmark for the marathon. That said, Daniels' suggests that you should be around 5:29 if your goal is sub-3. McMillan suggests closer to a 5:20 mile. Hansons' suggests a 5:19 mile. Sure, you will likely get your mile time down as you train, but realistically it's a tall mountain to climb from where you're starting.

-You're capped at 40 miles per week, which is on the very low end of any credible marathon plan. 40 mpw generally provides almost no wiggle room for anything to go wrong (scheduling conflicts, family vacations, illness, etc that could interfere with your training schedule) when you're targeting an aggressive marathon PR. The positive is you've got 25 weeks to work with, when many plans are 12-18 weeks.

You may want to pick a lower mileage plan and see how things transpire. Don't necessarily go all in for an arbitrary time of sub-3.

Good responses, OP. Have you run a marathon before? If so, when? What was your time?

It is a stretch, for sure. As others have pointed out, cross training may be a great way to get some work in without banging up your legs too badly. Find a cross training method that works for you and get after it, it will be a good fallback if you do end up with a set-back along the way.

I'd encourage you to spend the next month or two increasing your running mileage and ramping up the cross training. Find a race early spring, preferably 10k to half-marathon, and then re-assess your goals, etc. You clearly aren't in sub-3 shape right now, so there's no use in focusing on MP runs, etc. If 6:50/7:00 is truly your threshold right now, start doing some threshold 800s/1000s with good recovery. This will help improve your threshold and overall aerobic fitness.

Start building your mileage towards that marathon. Along the way, run a 5K (race or time trial) in a month. See if you can go under 20 min, preferably 19. Then, build more and do a 10K. See if you can go under 40, preferably closer to 38 or 39 min. Move on the a half. See if you can run around 1:25-1:26. If you can stay on that track, you've got a 50/50 shot.

Doesn't sound like you can achieve both with your current fitness. Pick one ... run a sub-3 marathon ... OR ... run a marathon in 25 weeks.

Put together a long-range plan to run sub-3. Part of that plan can/should include the marathon 25 weeks from now. Use that as a stepping stone for the next training block. Repeat until you get to your sub-3 goal.