XC SKiing: Skate vs. Classic

All nordic ski racers do both disciplines, and most race weekends/carnivals will usually have one race of each technique. The exception to this being sprints, which are generally skate dominated. However, classic sprinting is catching on- there's a classic spring in Estonia on the World Cup this weekend. Good luck to Newell and Koos.

I think most people think skating is more 'fun', even though skiing either technique is still awesome. Personally, I like skating a little better just because you don't have to deal with kickwax/klister, but there's a lot to be said for a great classic day. Runners usually find classic more natural at first, provided they're provided with decent conditions and bomber kick. As the saying goes- classic is easier to 'learn' but harder to master. If you've been classic skiing, the transition to skate will be a little easier than for a totally new skier. Depending on your experience, your learning curve will obviously be different.

If you're particularly quick at learning and have good balance on skis, you may be able to use the v2 technique by the end of your first season. This is the technique used on flat and slight upgrades, but is too hard to describe verbally. Other techniques of skating are the v1, which is used for uphills (and lazy/exhausted skiers use this on flat terrain), and the v2 alternate, which is used for high speed flats, and cranking downhill. Watch other skiers or videos and you'll see all 3 techniques.

As far as gear...this may start a war here. A lot of people (myself included) like Salomon's skate specific Pilot binding system. NNN/Rossignol does not have a similar system, and some people find the Pilot binding keeps the ski in better control. I don't notice a huge difference between the Profil and Pilot bindings, but it is noticeable.

Boots obviously determine what binding system you get. Fishcer/Salomon/Hartjes boots use Pilot/Profil bindings, and Rossignol/Alpina/Atomic boots use NNN/Rottefella/Rossignol. Since you're more likely to notice discomfort in your boots than a binding system, choose your boots, then get the appropriate bindings.

Poles- longer than classic. The rough 'rule' for length is that the top of the grip goes to your lips.

Skis...personal preference. Fischer has the infamous 'skatecut' which is supposed to increase stability on hardpack conditions. I've never skied on them, but I've heard the Rossignol Xiums are solid skis. Whatever ones you get, make sure they're flexed correctly for your weight.

Workout intensity...about the same for each. All depends on the terrain and how much you like busting your ass. It is more difficult to skate quickly when you first learn, so technical deficiency will most likely prevent you from getting high intensity workouts in (unless you're going uphill).

Hope that helps and have fun with it.

I have read that skating can be tough on your knees. Probably if doing it for a workout do both. Its a great way to mix up doing pretty much the same thing.

Skating is more intense; it will do a better job of building and maintaining mass in your major leg muscles, which is key for masters. It will also build up your arms more than classic, which is good for appearances if nothing else.

At the risk of offending the purists, I will say that you can enjoy yourself and get a great workout with the basic v1 technique, at least as long as you're doing a lot of hills. If you're mostly on the flats you may need to learn the more advanced techniques to get a sufficiently hard workout. I only do the v1 (with hills) and I've gotten myself in sub-34 10K running shape that way (and I'm older than 45).

Hi Jim-

Have been Nordic skiing for about 25 years and skating for about 20. Currently coach NCAA level. Both classic and skate give a great workout. I wouldn't say skating is "more intense" because if you're going hard on XC skis then you're going hard, doesn't matter which technique you're using. IMO, if you ski 25 or more days a year then picking up skating can provide a little variation for your muscles, but if you ski less than 25 days a year then I'd just pick a technique and stick with that. I'm just pulling that 25 days out of a hat. The point is that it's better to work on getting really good at one technique so that you can get the best possible workout if you're only skiing a limited number of days each winter.

As for gear I ski on the NNN binding system but Salomon's Pilot is good too. As pointed out above, if you don't have a clear favorite then find boots that fit you best and let the boot purchase drive the binding purchase. If you decide on Salomon definitely go with Pilots over their Profile system. Especially as a beginning skater it will help you. With boots, I'd stick with the major brands. Salomon & Fischer are the main boots for the Salomon bindings, Ropssignol and Alpina are the main boots for the NNN bindings. If you can swing it stay with skate specific boots instead of Combi boots. Personally I like combi boots for classic skiing (warmer for us coaches than race classic boots, and a little more ankle support for the downhills), but I haven't found any combi boots that I like for skating. You don't need top of the line racing boots. I find the build quality is solid throughout most lines. The difference between a $400 Salomon Carbon Pro boot and a $170 Rossi Max Skate boot is not going to be noticeable to someone who's not pushing their equipment to the limit. For skis, you really can't go wrong with any of the 4 major manufacturers these days (Rossi, Fischer, Madshus, Atomic) and Salomon is a new player in the race ski game this year. I expect their skis will be good but haven't heard many reports yet. #1 priority is get a skate ski that fits you, #2 priority is price. I highly recommend going to a reputable shop for sizing. Consider buying 2004 or 2005 stock if the deal is right and the ski fits you well. Based on what I see for equipment available right now, I'd go with 2006 boots and 2004 skis over new skis/older boots in a heartbeat.

The learning curve shouldn't be too bad if you've been classic skiing for several years. The one thing you must do is commit to skate skiing even though the first couple days can be slow going. Keep trying and you'll get it faster than you might think after your first 30 minutes skate skiing on day 1. Spend a month skate skiing exclusively and get out 10-12 times and you'll be glad you did. After that you can mix skating and classic. Highly recommended to start out someplace flat to work on your balance and coordinating the poling/leg push. And stick to groomed areas.

The names for the basic skate techniques are mentioned above - V2 and V1. The easy way to keep them straight is V2 means push with your poles on every skate, V1 has a "push" side and a "rest" side. V2 is generally used in faster situations, V1 is frequently used on uphills. When we started skating in the mid 1980's it was all V1. When I got back into skiing about 10 years ago one of my big goals was to learn V2. It took me a couple years of hard work to break my V1 habit. Because of this I tell any beginning skater to try to V2 as much as possible. It will help you in the long run.

Have fun!

I am a collegiate ski racer and I prefer the classic technique.

It is definitely more difficult to master technically and waxing can be more difficult but I have more fun on classic skis than anything else. Skate skiing is not nearly as aerobic.

People say they don't like klister but if someone says they don't like klister, then they don't know how to use it. I will absolutely guarantee you that if you nail the wax klister skiing it will be more fun than any possible hardwax conditions. You will have 2x the glide and 2x the kick.

I would advise you to get in touch with your local ski shop and look into a master ski group. Having technique instruction will help you tremendously and make your skiing experiences much more enjoyable.

You've already received a lot of good advice, esp from xseerunner and d2 coach. I too have been xc skiing for about 25 years, and started in on the first wave of skating, ca. 1985. (d2, maybe we raced long ago.)

I just bought a pair of Alpina skate boots for about $200, and use the NNN system. These are very nice. For skis there is a wide range, as described by d2 coach. I think you can get a new pair of Atomic RS 8 or 9? for under $250. The top of the line are a bit more expensive, maybe $350 but are really nice. You can also get used skis that aren't too expensive.

Back when I learned, V1 took about 2 weeks of consistent skiing, as did V2. Maybe I'm a slow learner. (I was about 3 - 6 months behind the US curve when they really started taking off on these). What's nice is that once you become proficient at skating, then you can actually get better at classic because you truly learn how to shift your weight with each stride.

The new things I can add (1) take some lessons or all day clinics at a good ski center. That will help your learning curve immensely. (2) practice your balance and weight shift by skating without poles. You'll pick it up more quickly if you do.

Now, the question of compatibility with running. Classic is more compatible with running, and you can jump from one to the other with ease. Skating tends to be more anaerobic and power-oriented. Cyclists glom onto skating. You put out a burst of energy for a few seconds to a few minutes, and then have time to glide and recover. Classic is more of a steady output, with very high aerobic demands, but less power and more finesse. Note that many good skaters, who skate almost exclusively, can also be good runners--I just think that the transition between the two takes longer.

I like both about the same. Skating's a little be less hassle because of waxing and you can really fly, but hitting the wax right in classic and getting into a good kick and glide groove is tough to beat.

Hi AK-

Maybe we did race against each other. I graduated high school in '83 (NY) - raced soph, jr, sr years. Raced NCAA DII in college back when the NCAA had divisions in skiing instead of clumping us all together. I did a lot of open races in college and for a couple years post-college too. If you raced in New England from 1984-1990 we probably crossed paths. Drop a line at the email and maybe we can figure it out.

I've got video from one of my college skate races from the first year we skated that I show my team now as an example of what not to do. It's amazing that we were able to get decent results using hugely inefficient technique.

To Jim (the original poster)...definitely take a good lesson when you start skating. It may be worth it to seek out a good local master skier or coach rather than doing a group lesson at a local ski area. The ski area group lesson is probably going to be geared towards beginning skiers whereas the master/coach may be able to move you along a little faster.

d2xccoach wrote:

To Jim (the original poster)...definitely take a good lesson when you start skating. It may be worth it to seek out a good local master skier or coach rather than doing a group lesson at a local ski area. The ski area group lesson is probably going to be geared towards beginning skiers whereas the master/coach may be able to move you along a little faster.

Good point--race clinics not just beginner clinics are also a very good way to go if you can find the right ones; you can get some top-level racers and coaches sometimes.

In my opinion, both skating and classic are good ways to get a low impact workout that crosses over to running pretty well. Skating involves less farting around with wax, if you just want to get out the door and do it. Both require a lot of upper body power to do well, but you can get away with low-power technique if you're just doing it as cross-training for running.

Yes, +1 for classic! I went skiing today. Two loops with classic. One loop skating. I'm equally good at both and actually have done more skating because that's been the trend cool thing to learn at groomed places.

Classic was way more enjoyable than skating. It's more like running IMO and I was going faster than I could skate on the plus 0C conditions. Classic is making a comeback much like former snowboarders are ditching their boards for the once uncool alpine skis.

Yeah. But, when you miss the wax with klister, you are MISERABLE. Horrible. That's the risk. Plus that red klister is a PITA to get off your skis.

There's some sweet waxless classic skis available now. I use those for any plus or near zero conditions. Grab and go!

At theses trails, most of the beginners were doing classic. The "experts" and snobby skiers were all doing skating. Yet for the experienced, classic technique was the best choice today. The snobby skate skiers, and there's a lot of snobby skate skiers, wouldn't even consider classic... but classic is WAY better sometimes.

121 months, and this thread was brought back to life!That's a new record.

Good for a decade comparison. Skating still king of the trails, but classic is best for runners, IMO.

Everything that all these guys said plus....

A. Unless you have a huge budget and a wax coach diagonal will usually be the better technique in extreme cold weather.

B. But not as much as skating will be superior above freezing temperatures (without waxless classic skis anyway) and with wetter snow in direct sunlight.

C. Diagonal is possible in places without set tracks. Also possible in places with no tracks where you will ski back over your own. Like every golf course in the snowy parts of the country.

Maybe not optimal conditions but better than driving another hour to the nearest rolled skating track. Using rough narrow unrolled snowmobile tracks for skating is how I got my first two knee operations. (One of the perils of adopting the skating technique before the equipment had caught up to it.)

I no longer have the lower back to use the shorter "Fischer Revolutions" for that setting and it never really worked out all that well for me back when I did anyway.

D. As you get old and decrepid you can still diagonal for 4-6 hours, I haven't been able to do that up at altitude on skate skis in at least 15 years now.

E. The cyclists prefer skating technique dynamic mentioned here is quite valid, but at the highest levels it's been widely understood that you will develop too MUCH upper body muscle for stage racing (since Greg LeMond just about ended his own professional career in this fashion more than 20 years ago now.)

Now if you don't enter cycling events yourself with a King of the Mountains category and six figure first prize for same-then this is probably not an issue for all of us mere mortals; but it is another data point that would recommend classical technique for runners.

For most readers here I would say that "C" is the most relevant observation?

Best Letsrun discussion ever

I second the classic is easier to learn but harder to master. Also when learning to skate go without poles for the first couple of times.

skatesker wrote:

Best Letsrun discussion ever

It was brought back from ten years ago. I wonder if Jim Fiore still skiing?

Conundrum wrote:

skatesker wrote:

Best Letsrun discussion ever

It was brought back from ten years ago. I wonder if Jim Fiore still skiing?

I thought someone said he died. Seriously. But that might have been one of those bad-taste "jokes".