Hey gator $hit, nc state got runner up and two national championship trophy’s these past three years, but hey they got lucky right?🤣
In case you haven't figured out, I'm an NC State/Tuohy fan (but balanced). The luck NC State has this year was Moreno running her best ever college race finishing 45 seconds and 50 places better than estimate. Otherwise, they don't win.
Bad luck for OSU was despite home course advantage, their #3 (and previous team course record holder) crashed and burned on race day.
Bad luck for AL was that Palmer had 3 reasonable candidates for a 5th, but none panned out. Not like he didn't try.
Hey gator $hit, nc state got runner up and two national championship trophy’s these past three years, but hey they got lucky right?🤣
In case you haven't figured out, I'm an NC State/Tuohy fan (but balanced). The luck NC State has this year was Moreno running her best ever college race finishing 45 seconds and 50 places better than estimate. Otherwise, they don't win.
Bad luck for OSU was despite home course advantage, their #3 (and previous team course record holder) crashed and burned on race day.
Bad luck for AL was that Palmer had 3 reasonable candidates for a 5th, but none panned out. Not like he didn't try.
You are right in Mareno running great - the top ACC runners ran about 20 seconds slower in time at Nationals than they did at ACC championship, whereas Mareno ran 9 seconds faster. So my guess is she ran 30 seconds faster than one would guess based on ACC result. But she was closer to Tuohy at Nuttycombe than at ACC so I had her placing around 50th (in team scoring) at Nationals - versus her actual finish of 26 (in team scoring).
You are way off. The McAlpine Park xc course is nowhere near as difficult as the National Championship course in Balboa Park. So no, 13 year old Tyynismaa wasn't better than 18 year old Weini Kelati.
Actually she was. They ran the same course on the same day and Tyynismaa ran FASTER by 7 seconds. They weren't in the same race because 8th graders aren't eligible to qualify for the championship
Wow I didn't realize Tyynismaa was actually faster than Tuohy in middle school. I'm shocked these forums weren't blowing up about her in 2014 and 2015.
She was even faster than all but around 15 high schoolers in the country as an 8th grader. Superstar potential if she can stay healthy.
Actually she was. They ran the same course on the same day and Tyynismaa ran FASTER by 7 seconds. They weren't in the same race because 8th graders aren't eligible to qualify for the championship
Wow I didn't realize Tyynismaa was actually faster than Tuohy in middle school. I'm shocked these forums weren't blowing up about her in 2014 and 2015.
She was even faster than all but around 15 high schoolers in the country as an 8th grader. Superstar potential if she can stay healthy.
Per his rolltide bio, he coached Mercy to two titles. Tyynismaa and Olemomoi doing great. Valby is going to stay I bet. Will any of the Bama girls follow him?
I hope part of the goal is to build a real XC team.
What money will they get? UF money goes to track point getters. How is he going to attract foreigners without money? Unless they know how to fudge financial aid packages like U of O use to do.
Many would argue that the last four distance coaches at UF (Pigg, Morgan, Spangler, Solinsky) ended their tenures in not so good terms. They were either pushed out or fired. It’s hard to imagine this will end any different.
Per his rolltide bio, he coached Mercy to two titles. Tyynismaa and Olemomoi doing great. Valby is going to stay I bet. Will any of the Bama girls follow him?
I hope part of the goal is to build a real XC team.
What money will they get? UF money goes to track point getters. How is he going to attract foreigners without money? Unless they know how to fudge financial aid packages like U of O use to do.
Depends on the school. Some universities offer aid for foreigners that can stack with athletic aid. An international can’t expect to get a full ride at UF, so may not be the best fit. You either are a distance heavy school if P5 or mid-major this is where most internationals can go. Florida/LSU/A&M aren’t those type of schools. So you go after good domestic runners who will “walk on” because it’s florida/LSU/A&M. A school like UF has a huge advantage over a distance heavy mid-major, sell the damn school and they’ll walk on, that’s what Americans do. Have mom and dad front the remainder of the bill after academic aid and other scholarships go through. Good internationals do not want to pay a dime.
Damn great logic, so only palmer has developed runners, so palmer developed the Kenyan runners and made them who they are as a runner! 💀💀 hahaha great
But not the same case for Henes, per Gator bait logic, Coach Henes didnt develop any of her runners even after winning back to back title and a runner-up title and winning 3 individual titles in the last 3 years ;)) those runners ran without the help of their coach meanwhile the kenyans had the help of the amazing PALMER
why he didnt get the national coach award in the last 2 years?? must be rigged
The assumption here is if a coach brings in the #1, #1 and #3 recruit in their high school class, and then they perform well in the NCAA, that is not a surprise and a coach can't take credit for their development. Bush, on the other hand was 'unranked' in HS and developed to all-american.
Moreno is a different case. She was the #2 recruit in her class and went to Stanford, where she was injured/regressed. When she transferred to NC state she very slowly refound her form, finally in Spring '22 1500 and Fall xc. The coach can certainly take credit for rehabbing a former talent.
Lastly on NC st, it's pretty amazing they rolled out a team of #1, #1, U, #2, #3 recruits. (Note Starliper was #3 recruit in her class and not on this team.)
Alabama and Coach Palmer is a different story. His team is
Kenyan 1, Kenyan 2, unranked US, Kenyan 3 and ??? at the five.
He gets no credit for developing the Kenyans, and despite some valiant effort was not able to find a good 5 (if he did they would have won!). He should get credit though for rehabbing and developing Tyynismaa.
The board here seems to agree that:
Solinsky is a great coach, he developed Valby.
Henes is a great coach, she recruited studs and got them healthy to starting line, developed Bush and fixed Moreno.
Palmer sucks because he was handed Kenyans and Tyynismaa was a child star, who fixed herself.
My argument is that:
Palmer is also a good coach, he got his Kenyans healthy to the start line, and he fixed/developed Tyynismaa. Florida has a good hire.
Finally, I don't really believe that coaching US stars and international recruits is easy. Many don't pan out or get injured. It is pretty clear, however, that recruiting talent is the surest way to a championship.
I think the issue with Palmer is not just that he was getting Kenyan runners, but runners who came in at 22 years of age. The ability to get runners to the line healthy is certainly commendable, although Alabama suffered the usual share of injuries. But is very hard to credit him for developing any of the Kenyan runners. Does not mean he is a bad coach, just a bit untested. Can he recruit and develop local talent?
With Henes she has handled Tuohy and Chmiel brilliantly, and Tuohy especially given the history of blue chip recruits in the sport, the pressure and the injuries she was dealing with coming into college. Plus she has handled other athletes very intelligently (Hays, Steelman, Moreno, etc) and runners have developed well in her program. With Henes it was always a matter of getting the talent. but once she got it she hit it out of the park.
Henes has recruited brilliantly. I give her total credit for that. And coach of the year in xc is almost always just the coach of the national champion team. As to what role she has played and how much credit she deserves for that, I have no idea, because I don't know what she does as a coach. What I do know is that her team is absolutely loaded.