No wonder he’s never created a good runner! And you all still follow his training? Does anyone but this ‘Smoove’ chap actually like his training? Long run rules? Choosing random paces that have nothing to do with any systems or race pace. Random R, I, T????? 20 minute tempos? What is all this stuff? Pathetic….
No wonder he’s never created a good runner! And you all still follow his training? Does anyone but this ‘Smoove’ chap actually like his training? Long run rules? Choosing random paces that have nothing to do with any systems or race pace. Random R, I, T????? 20 minute tempos? What is all this stuff? Pathetic….
Many successful high school and college programs can be classified as neo-Daniels.
Look at it as a cookbook. You don't have to follow it exactly. However you need to recognize the importance of each ingredient and understand how changing one or more will effect the recipe.
The tempo doesn't have to be 20 minutes; for some fewer minutes is sufficient and for others more might be better. Same with his R pace or I pace whether distances used or pace.
It's a simple tried and true formula for most. Sorry it hasn't worked for you. What protocol or methodology do you employ?
J D was a former D3 T&F coach, correct? That doesn't make J D a bad person but his assumptions what athletes can and cannot tolerate are skewed.
Example. If I recall correctly, J D made assumptions what sprinters can and cannot tolerate. As a D3 coach, at least 98% of his "sprinters" were in (10.75 to 12.25) 100m range. Many were not natural sprinters at all so of course they could tolerate a modified XC program.
There are reasons (10.5 to 12.5) 100m guys choose D3. Some were told of D1 or D2 opportunities but events 400m &/or 800m. Not every 400m &/or 800m talent wants to continue as 400m &/or 800m athletes.
It’s good stuff for beginners and more high school level. However, you’re right there’s no elite runners doing 20 minute tempos. He wears a cool cowboy hat and has sold his brand though. Have to give him that.
It basically paved the way for advances in coaching philosophy. Thresholds, tempos, certain types of intervals etc evolved to what they are today from Daniels and others before him. Maybe the best thing is that he actually took the time to write it all down and publish it in an understandable way.
He was a D3 coach so he didn't get top notch talent. But he did get a lot of runners being in upstate NY and the 80s and 90s had a lot of local depth. I've always been under the impression he got a bunch of promising but under aerobicly developed girls and ran them a bunch of miles. It's pretty easy to get results with that formula.
J D was a former D3 T&F coach, correct? That doesn't make J D a bad person but his assumptions what athletes can and cannot tolerate are skewed.
Example. If I recall correctly, J D made assumptions what sprinters can and cannot tolerate. As a D3 coach, at least 98% of his "sprinters" were in (10.75 to 12.25) 100m range. Many were not natural sprinters at all so of course they could tolerate a modified XC program.
There are reasons (10.5 to 12.5) 100m guys choose D3. Some were told of D1 or D2 opportunities but events 400m &/or 800m. Not every 400m &/or 800m talent wants to continue as 400m &/or 800m athletes.
What does this have to do with anything?
He worked with Jim Ryun as well....does that make any difference? The appearance of his books on the market helped a lot of coaches who "kind of" knew what they were doing to organize their training to make it more meaningful
I've read many of his books and found the info useful, but have never just adopted any of his plans full stop
J D was a former D3 T&F coach, correct? That doesn't make J D a bad person but his assumptions what athletes can and cannot tolerate are skewed.
Example. If I recall correctly, J D made assumptions what sprinters can and cannot tolerate. As a D3 coach, at least 98% of his "sprinters" were in (10.75 to 12.25) 100m range. Many were not natural sprinters at all so of course they could tolerate a modified XC program.
There are reasons (10.5 to 12.5) 100m guys choose D3. Some were told of D1 or D2 opportunities but events 400m &/or 800m. Not every 400m &/or 800m talent wants to continue as 400m &/or 800m athletes.
What does this have to do with anything?
He worked with Jim Ryun as well....does that make any difference? The appearance of his books on the market helped a lot of coaches who "kind of" knew what they were doing to organize their training to make it more meaningful
I've read many of his books and found the info useful, but have never just adopted any of his plans full stop
You cannot connect the dots?
Does it ever cross your mind that 800m may have been J Ryun's best natural event? If a T&F coach has a philosophy mileage and XC participation for (100 & 200)m is harmless, a coach with that attitude would not have been capable of realizing J Ryun may have been a true 800m talent and grinding J Ryun into hamburger logging 100 plus miles per week was not ideal for J Ryun.
Maybe skin color was a factor. No way if a Black man with Ryun's size and 400m or 440 yard talent would a T&F coach have made a guy a miler. You do realize J Ryun and Duane Solomon at their peak were almost the same 400m or 440 yard talent and very similar build.
Was J D coaching Ryun prior to 1968 Olympics? At 7750ft. elevation, why was the 6'2 1/2" 168 lbs.Ryun training for and racing 1500m and not 800m on lower mileage? Are you telling me on 60 miles per week Ryun wouldn't have given R Doubell (sp?) more competition? No way would Ryun have been defeated by R D by (35 to 40)m as was the case in 1500m. After that decision by J Daniels, I don't care what he has to say.
Daniel still believes that a step rate of 90 is applicable for all speeds, and tons of morons have copied that.
Running form is still a foreign word for him.
Outdated.
Did Daniel's ever say 90 steps per minute was the most optimal? I recall a study where he observed Olympic marathon runners and saw that the average cadence was around 90 spm. I don't think he extrapolated that to say 90 was IT for any pace or runner.
No wonder he’s never created a good runner! And you all still follow his training? Does anyone but this ‘Smoove’ chap actually like his training? Long run rules? Choosing random paces that have nothing to do with any systems or race pace. Random R, I, T????? 20 minute tempos? What is all this stuff? Pathetic….
Daniels is just a smart way to train for the most part and has general guidelines that keep runners improving. It was marketed as a special formula to sell books but ultimately it's just a logical training program. Most people start with that and tweak it from there to fit their desires.
He worked with Jim Ryun as well....does that make any difference? The appearance of his books on the market helped a lot of coaches who "kind of" knew what they were doing to organize their training to make it more meaningful
I've read many of his books and found the info useful, but have never just adopted any of his plans full stop
You cannot connect the dots?
Does it ever cross your mind that 800m may have been J Ryun's best natural event? If a T&F coach has a philosophy mileage and XC participation for (100 & 200)m is harmless, a coach with that attitude would not have been capable of realizing J Ryun may have been a true 800m talent and grinding J Ryun into hamburger logging 100 plus miles per week was not ideal for J Ryun.
Maybe skin color was a factor. No way if a Black man with Ryun's size and 400m or 440 yard talent would a T&F coach have made a guy a miler. You do realize J Ryun and Duane Solomon at their peak were almost the same 400m or 440 yard talent and very similar build.
Was J D coaching Ryun prior to 1968 Olympics? At 7750ft. elevation, why was the 6'2 1/2" 168 lbs.Ryun training for and racing 1500m and not 800m on lower mileage? Are you telling me on 60 miles per week Ryun wouldn't have given R Doubell (sp?) more competition? No way would Ryun have been defeated by R D by (35 to 40)m as was the case in 1500m. After that decision by J Daniels, I don't care what he has to say.
This is so far off the mark that it is comical. Jack Daniels was not Ryun's coach, Bob Timmons was. Jack was a friend of Timmons. Timmons had originally been a swim coach, who had trained swimmers with a ton of interval work (which you can do with swimmers, but not with most runners). Ryun's training in his best years was probably more heavy on short interval work than Duane Solomon's.
Daniels also was primarily an exercise physiologist who did physiological testing on a lot of the elite distance runners of that era, and formulated his coaching philosophy based on his exercise physiology data. As a coach, he led SUNY Cortland runners to eight NCAA Division III National Championships, 31 individual national titles, and more than 130 All-America awards, so he must have known a bit about coaching.
To quote Wikipedia about Daniels' coaching philosophy, Daniels divides running performance into six components. Daniels argues that each of these components requires a specific training intensity to improve.
The Cardiovascular System, specifically the body's ability to transport oxygen. The Running muscles' ability to use oxygen. The Lactate threshold - the ability to cope with, and minimize, lactate in the blood. The VO2max - the maximum oxygen uptake capacity. Speed, for example, leg turnover. The Running economy - the efficiency of the runner's movements.
Daniels uses five specific training intensities to improve the different components above. A runner can determine the correct speed for each intensity based on the VDOT from a recent performance.
Daniels was one of the pioneers of using exercise physiology to generate specific coaching strategies for runners. There certainly have been refinements of the concepts he started, but many of them have been built on the foundation he laid.
No wonder he’s never created a good runner! And you all still follow his training? Does anyone but this ‘Smoove’ chap actually like his training? Long run rules? Choosing random paces that have nothing to do with any systems or race pace. Random R, I, T????? 20 minute tempos? What is all this stuff? Pathetic….
Im not sure anyone has done as much to democratize access to training information as Jack Daniels, particularly with his easily digestible VDOT tables. Yeah obviously elite athletes and coaches will need more individualization than the generic plans he writes, but for the average HS coach codifying the different training paces has been invaluable for American distance running development.
Mike Smith was a pupil of Jack spending time in his lab when they had the altitude center there in Flag. That mentorship has translated to the dynasty we are witnessing today.
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