Post-collegiates with NCAA teams

DON'T DO IT.....if you compete w/ a team that you didn't run for you lose a season of eligibility.

dude, WTF. Let me get this straight, you're done w/ running for the NCAA and you're scared of being punished by them?? seriously what the hell can they do to you NOW!?!?

hmm.... wrote:

dude, WTF. Let me get this straight, you're done w/ running for the NCAA and you're scared of being punished by them?? seriously what the hell can they do to you NOW!?!?

they can screw over the team you're training with.

If you've completed your eligibility and if there are no questionable facets of how you competed and completed it and if you aren't helping currently-eligible student-athletes to break NCAA rules then the NCAA doesn't give a sh!t about you.

Geez, man, think about it: how the hell could they sanction you now if you've graduated and are done with your eligibility?

Yeah well chances are if the coach okays it then he's probably made sure that doing so wouldn't endanger his team in the eyes of the NCAA and thus his job.

Maybe an example would help can Grant Robison train with Mike Woods at Michigan, are the rules different if Nick Willis wants to train with Mike Woods, these are just hypothetical questions?

All of you ripping this guy need to understand there are rules about post-collegiates training with NCAA teams. My understanding is the only way it can be done is if you are considered a volunteer coach (or a regular coach like Robert Gary), or you have to be considered an elite runner. Most schools I am aware of use the USATF qualifying marks to determine if you are an "elite" runner.

Seems crazy, but the NCAA does have a rule about this. You just can't come off the street and start to train with a program. If someone lets you do it, the coach is actually in violation.

it appears that 1 in 5 letsrun users reads. i think that's actually better than i had expected. maybe if we started asking simpler questions we'd get more correct responses.

Yeah man, great grammar in a great and moving post.

When trying to understand many NCAA rules, you need only to put the situation into the context of basketball.

Example: can Michael Jordan come and practice with UNC or with any other basketball squad? Or, put it another way, should three former NBA players be allowed to practice with Drexel University?

The answer is no - because, and it should be obvious, to allow that gives UNC and Drexel a tremendous recruiting advantage (if nothing else) over other institutions that don't provide NBA practice players.

Certain schools consistently skirt these restrictions.

i've refrained from responding to this question until now becaues i don't know the exact rules, and i'm sure someone who does browses this board regularly. some of the responses have pretty decent information, but i don't think anyone has put it all together in one post.

when i was a post-collegiate athlete, i believe the rules were as follows:

a team is allowed to have up to three volunteer assistants. a volunteer assistant can work-out with the team without restriction (same goes for paid coaches, as pointed out earlier).

additionally, there is an exception for athletes who are of olympic caliber. i don't know how the ncaa defines this, or if there is a specific definition at all.

as "perspective" points out, ncaa rules really exist for football and basketball. but in this case, you can see how it would apply to track as well. if stanford could use the lure of training with the entire farm team as an additional recruiting tool, then that would be a huge advantage. these rules attempt to limit the impact of a school having greater financial resources (combined with the rules for scholarship limits).

however, because of the exception for olympic caliber athletes (which presumably exists to help the US olympic cause), the whole purpose of the rule is undermined.

finally, i don't believe that athletes who are alumni of a school are treated any differently, except in the practical sense - a coach is more likely to use one of the three volunteer asst spots on him/her and a coach is more likely to go through the certification process for him/her.

There several sides to this issue, but clearly there are some schools who have professional athletes training, traveling, competing, pacing, etc. with the athletes on the squads. These athletes also do their share of recruiting, especially international athletes. I see "red shirt" athletes traveling with post collegiate athletes to various competitions, and in a subsequent season, they are competing for the team. There is a whole social networking going on, far beyond the scope of NCAA sport.

Is there something wrong with that? That's a difficult question to answer. They are promoting the sport and they are getting many runners to improve. They are not abiding by NCAA rules, to which they just shrug and say that the rules are stupid. At the end of the day, because their team does well, they appear justified. Nobody wants to look at this too closely, as it involves some of the most frequently successful programs.

I actually think this rule began because of Carl Lewis and he kept training at UH for a while after his eligibility. Many other schools got upset because HS recruits would visit UH and see probably the greatest Track & Field athlete ever working out with the team. Now, this is what I've heard from word of mouth, so don't rip me if I'm wrong. But this is also why Michael Johnson was listed (may still be) as a volunteer coach at Baylor. When they had good recruits come on a visit he would show up and shake their hands. If he wasn't listed as a vol. coach this would have been a violation.

what's wrong with a redshirt athlete catching a ride to a meet with a professional athlete? as long as the team is not paying for it, i don't see a problem. the same with pacing. why can't a pro athlete pace a college race?

as far as training goes, i think my post above is more or less accurate, and i don't think many, if any, teams break this rule because compliance isn't very burdensome.

so what ncaa rule(s) is (are) being violated in your mind?

my balls are this big

What rule is being violated? Well, on Monday, the pro is at practice. On Saturday the pro is driving the redshirt athlete to the meet.

If the pro is at practice, he is either a volunteer coach or - at minimum - a booster, that is, someone associated with the program. Either way, he has no business transporting a redshirt athlete to competitions.

Additionally, you will find that the pro will provide many added benefits that a real coach cannot: anything from transportation to social events, to summer sublets, to hooking up shoe contracts, to providing small favors to team members and recruits.

In effect, a social network gets developed that allows the team members to function in ways that a team run by NCAA rules would not be able to. Again, should we begrudge this? I really don't, but I do know programs whose success is built upon such doings.

I remember seeing pictures of Ritz training with Torres and Goucher during his last year at Colorado.

And at that time Goucher was a volunteer assistant, as Torres is now.

Regarding the example cited in another post, if the volunteer assistant transporting a redshirting athlete to a meet is doing so in his own vehicle without any reimbursement for transportation (gas/mileage) expenses, then the volunteer assistant isn't acting as a functionary of the school or the team, he's doing it as a personal favor to the redshirting athlete. He can still collect per diem if he performs official duties for the team while at the meet, but if the school isn't footing the bill to get him there and back then who the coach brings with him is his own business.

It only makes sense that he would, and it would seem to be a shame to prohibit such practices. Good runners getting together help each other. It's only natural that runners with the same coach should work out together as well.

I think that's why nobody really wants to dig into this issue. It goes against running's tradition and comraderie.

A volunteer assistant may not provide transportation to a redshirt athlete under any circumstance. \He is providing free transportation which is in direct conflict with rules against extra benefits.

When he signs on as a volunteer coach, he agress to abide by NCAA rules. There is no such thing as personal favors after that.