Let's define easy slow running as running in the 60-70%HRmax zone. Some call that zone 2.
Opinions?
Does easy slow running improves or worsen your running form?
Training Advice/Discussion
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Neither. It does improve your endurance though.
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slow miles are junk unless its a recovery day. progression runs w hard finish produce better results (if you can hold back from overexertion). I think some people call it moderate pace?>
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lexel wrote:
Let's define easy slow running as running in the 60-70%HRmax zone. Some call that zone 2.
Opinions?
Now define running form?
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lexel wrote:
Let's define easy slow running as running in the 60-70%HRmax zone. Some call that zone 2.
Opinions?
It can improve your form, if you aim to run with good form. Indeed, it is arguably the best time to work on form precisely because you're running so slowly.
I run a few days a week with people a lot slower than me. I know what I want to feel when running faster, so I work on it off and on during these very easy runs. Sometimes I'm a little surprised that my legs feel it the next day, so perhaps I am accomplishing something.
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Correct me if I’m wrong, but Lydiard said something to the effect that the potential for training of the aerobic system was unlimited. In order to do that, it takes hours-upon-hours of training, preferably in what you are calling Zone 2, correct?
However, as you surmise, spending the vast majority of training in Zone 2 with strictly running can potentially develop/teach poor neuromuscular patterns from the compromised (from optimum) running form that occurs when running/jogging slow.
We surmise, therefore, that a very large percentage of the required massive amount of Zone 2 training should be done in cross-training, on preferably on aerobic machines, like the Elliptical Machine, which can still, nonetheless, develop particular muscle strength and endurance for running, in contrast to other cross-training techniques like swimming. The Arc Trainer may be superior to the Elliptical Machine with regard to that latter point.
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It depends on how fast you are. When I was a 32 min 10k runner in the 1990s, even easy intensity was an honest pace. Now that I´m 53 easy pace feels really awkward and just makes me stiff.
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obviously something here wrote:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but Lydiard said something to the effect that the potential for training of the aerobic system was unlimited. In order to do that, it takes hours-upon-hours of training, preferably in what you are calling Zone 2, correct?
However, as you surmise, spending the vast majority of training in Zone 2 with strictly running can potentially develop/teach poor neuromuscular patterns from the compromised (from optimum) running form that occurs when running/jogging slow.
We surmise, therefore, that a very large percentage of the required massive amount of Zone 2 training should be done in cross-training, on preferably on aerobic machines, like the Elliptical Machine, which can still, nonetheless, develop particular muscle strength and endurance for running, in contrast to other cross-training techniques like swimming. The Arc Trainer may be superior to the Elliptical Machine with regard to that latter point.
^^^This is it!! This is what Valby and Cook have discovered experientially, and are actively displaying in their current running careers!!!
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obviously something here wrote:
obviously something here wrote:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but Lydiard said something to the effect that the potential for training of the aerobic system was unlimited. In order to do that, it takes hours-upon-hours of training, preferably in what you are calling Zone 2, correct?
However, as you surmise, spending the vast majority of training in Zone 2 with strictly running can potentially develop/teach poor neuromuscular patterns from the compromised (from optimum) running form that occurs when running/jogging slow.
We surmise, therefore, that a very large percentage of the required massive amount of Zone 2 training should be done in cross-training, on preferably on aerobic machines, like the Elliptical Machine, which can still, nonetheless, develop particular muscle strength and endurance for running, in contrast to other cross-training techniques like swimming. The Arc Trainer may be superior to the Elliptical Machine with regard to that latter point.
^^^This is it!! This is what Valby and Cook have discovered experientially, and are actively displaying in their current running careers!!!
The latter point is why pool running would be superior to swimming for cross-training, as well.
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well,,, wrote:
It depends on how fast you are. When I was a 32 min 10k runner in the 1990s, even easy intensity was an honest pace. Now that I´m 53 easy pace feels really awkward and just makes me stiff.
I apologize, your post deserves an upvote, but I clicked the wrong ‘button’.
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obviously something here wrote:
However, as you surmise, spending the vast majority of training in Zone 2 with strictly running can potentially develop/teach poor neuromuscular patterns from the compromised (from optimum) running form that occurs when running/jogging slow.
Neurological adaptation is a good keyword and in this studythey come to the conclusion 'These results show that the neural mechanisms underlying different running speeds in humans may be independent, just as in human walking and animal studies.' So they say slow running does not help for fast running from the neural perspective. Or in simple terms you improve your running form at that paces you train.
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lexel wrote:
obviously something here wrote:
However, as you surmise, spending the vast majority of training in Zone 2 with strictly running can potentially develop/teach poor neuromuscular patterns from the compromised (from optimum) running form that occurs when running/jogging slow.
Neurological adaptation is a good keyword and in this studythey come to the conclusion 'These results show that the neural mechanisms underlying different running speeds in humans may be independent, just as in human walking and animal studies.' So they say slow running does not help for fast running from the neural perspective. Or in simple terms you improve your running form at that paces you train.
👍 Good job.
In my personal experience, on easy runs, when I try keeping cadence above 180spm (threshold/race cadence) while keeping heart rate around ~79% HRmax, I do a short-stride putter-patter that feels unnatural and awkward. So when my mind wanders after a few minutes, I’m quickly back to plodding along at 160spm.
However, I think it’s easier (maybe from a mental viewpoint?) to sustain a high cadence on an Elliptical machine without elevating the HR up towards the LT2 HR (~88% HRmax.), unless one actually wants to, but that’s not easy for me to do on an Elliptical.
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#13
This post was removed.
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obviously something here wrote:
obviously something here wrote:
. The Arc Trainer may be superior to the Elliptical Machine with regard to that latter point.
From Wikipedia:
“Researchers found that healthy men burn about 10.8 calories per minute while working on the Arc Trainer, compared to about 9.3 calories per minute while on an elliptical.”
Doing the math, 10.8 calories/minute is equivalent to what is burned when running a bit slower than 9min/mile pace.
Valby said the Arc Trainer was her favorite because its motion better simulated that of running, vs the Elliptical.
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obviously something here wrote:
obviously something here wrote:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but Lydiard said something to the effect that the potential for training of the aerobic system was unlimited. In order to do that, it takes hours-upon-hours of training, preferably in what you are calling Zone 2, correct?
However, as you surmise, spending the vast majority of training in Zone 2 with strictly running can potentially develop/teach poor neuromuscular patterns from the compromised (from optimum) running form that occurs when running/jogging slow.
We surmise, therefore, that a very large percentage of the required massive amount of Zone 2 training should be done in cross-training, on preferably on aerobic machines, like the Elliptical Machine, which can still, nonetheless, develop particular muscle strength and endurance for running, in contrast to other cross-training techniques like swimming. The Arc Trainer may be superior to the Elliptical Machine with regard to that latter point.
^^^This is it!! This is what Valby and Cook have discovered experientially, and are actively displaying in their current running careers!!!
No it's not it!!
What it is, is they need to learn how to avoid injury.
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#16
This post was removed.
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#17
This post was removed.
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lexel wrote:
obviously something here wrote:
However, as you surmise, spending the vast majority of training in Zone 2 with strictly running can potentially develop/teach poor neuromuscular patterns from the compromised (from optimum) running form that occurs when running/jogging slow.
Neurological adaptation is a good keyword and in this studythey come to the conclusion 'These results show that the neural mechanisms underlying different running speeds in humans may be independent, just as in human walking and animal studies.' So they say slow running does not help for fast running from the neural perspective. Or in simple terms you improve your running form at that paces you train.
But are "they" runners? Because my experience tells me that if I can improve my easy running pace, I can improve my fast running pace. I'm not looking for shortcuts, because I know there are none.
It's all a continuum. Every pace from slowest to fastest is essential training. So yes slow running helps improve general conditioning.
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obviously something here wrote:
obviously something here wrote:
I’ve never seen an Arc Trainer in person, but from the Wikipedia picture, it looked like a machine that one sits down in. Maybe the collegiate athletes could be doing their homework while working out on one.
No, my mistake. Here is a better picture of an Arc Trainer:
Meanwhile, over in Ethiopia, young runners are being coached to run on both smooth and rough surfaces, to improve general conditioning. The concept being that running on rough, rutted trails improves foot and ankle strength and flexibility.
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Is it weird that people go to forums looking for answers from strangers and trolls before actually doing any type of research?
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