Exactly. I guarantee the coach has the kids doing anaerobic intervals 2-3x per week since August and thinks 20 miles per week is a lot.
But that is a recipe to have a above average team. All the best high schools I know in my state are hammering workouts 3x per week with 30-40 miles. Since they are kids, the most reliable way to get them to improve is by racing into shape.
If you have ever talked to a kid/coach at an actually bad high school, you will find they probably aren't doing any workouts or are trying too long of workouts where the kids just jog it.
My friend coaches a High School in rural Idaho where they have 15 runners and ZERO people capable of breaking 7:00 for a mile.
I feel for him, usually you have a couple of kids who are competitive.
Yeah I don't believe this at all. My 8th grade gym class had a dozen kids capable of breaking 7 in the mile. Its one thing to run sub 18, which will require some level of talent/training, and another to run under 7 for a single mile. Like two weeks of running will get even some of the most untalented athletes sub 7.
My friend coaches a High School in rural Idaho where they have 15 runners and ZERO people capable of breaking 7:00 for a mile.
I feel for him, usually you have a couple of kids who are competitive.
Yeah I don't believe this at all. My 8th grade gym class had a dozen kids capable of breaking 7 in the mile. Its one thing to run sub 18, which will require some level of talent/training, and another to run under 7 for a single mile. Like two weeks of running will get even some of the most untalented athletes sub 7.
The better kids from our PE classes don't go out for XC. But you're right about getting students under 7 with a bit of running.
My old high school has about 1400 students so not a tiny school, they also have a top guy of like 20:30 for 5k on a course that I ran 15:28 on a decade ago. Clearly they don't run at all in the off-season and come into cross country season off the couch, there's not enough time to get good if you're starting from zero in a 9 or 10 week season
Dug around a bit more, and current enrollment for 2022-23 at my school is just under 1000. Surprising, that's higher than when I attended. Test-wise they're just under the 50 percentile, which I don't think we were "40" years back but I'm not sure.
Recent meet over 5K, boys varsity showing:
21 mid, 22 high, 23 mid, 23 mid, 24 high,
Same week, different meet in 1983:
16 low, 16 high, 17 low, 17 low, 18 mid, and we finished fourth team-wise.
Exactly. I guarantee the coach has the kids doing anaerobic intervals 2-3x per week since August and thinks 20 miles per week is a lot.
the vo2 and faster intervals are way overdone. but it's also difficult for 21+ minute boys to run a lot more than 20 miles per week. we are talking about very weak running talent at that level.
if they aren't putting in the work over the summer, forget about it.
It is all about Summer Work. I would add that kids that don't run over the Summer (and/or haven't run in the past) are likely to get injured going from 0 to 20 miles a week, especially if intervals are added.
Exactly. I guarantee the coach has the kids doing anaerobic intervals 2-3x per week since August and thinks 20 miles per week is a lot.
I'll bet the opposite.
Lots of coaches these days are just trying to keep kids on the team. Workouts hurt and cause kids to quit. Coaches just let the kids jog for 30 minutes, do some corework and call it a practice.
My nieces' coach complained when they did summer workouts with another program - said the other coach was going "take the run out of their horses". My nieces are 1/2 by a large margin and would be 5/6 on the boys team. And they are not that talented - no hope of going to state as individuals.
I checked my two high schools. Both are pretty bad.
One is always up and down, no consistency. This appears to be a major down year, no guys under 19.
The other one was a small school power in the '90s with multiple state trophies. Now they are struggling to field 5 and has one that some times breaks 20.
Getting kids to buy in has always been tough, and I think it may be a little tougher now than it was 20, even 10, years ago. Coaches are battling a lot more options for the kids' time.
My buddy was a standout coach at a perennial powerhouse in cross country. The school used to field large teams. My buddy resigned this year in frustration. His teams went from talent rich to apathic kids merely participating to check a college application box. The school and parents expected that he would award everyone varsity letters regardless of attitude, work ethic, or whether they even provided advanced notice that they would not be at a practice or Saturday invitational.
He often used to fill scoring spots with multisport athletes who started the season in shape and would dramatically improve with proper training stimuli. The multisport kids were generally running to stay in shape for basketball/wrestling/swimming, etc. They were a great addition to the team because they were fit, motivated, tough, and tended to set a good tone in practice. Within the last five or so years he stopped getting most/any of the multisport athletes. Kids are generally sport specific now, playing their primary sport year round. With the demands of their primary sport they no long have time to participate in other scholastic sports.
The demands from other programs has also become more intense. The school's new theater program director barred students from missing theater practice for sporting events. The band program started entering more festivals and competitions that interfered with kids ability to participate in athletics.
Even at California states, there are some athletes over 18 flat in the boys race at Woodward Park, just ten or so in the D1 race, though. At the same time, this is how many teams and individuals averaged or ran under 18 in 2021:
D1 All 21 teams (14:41-17:03 (NP a minute five faster than #2 Great Oak), 170 individuals sub-18
D2 All 23 teams (15:58-17:55), and 171 individuals
D3 25 teams and 175 individuals
D4 22 teams and 150 individuals (over 50 ran over 18)
This board again proves it has no perspective on what normal talent is. My son’s team has shown up in national discussions and is expected to win state. My point is that the coaches know what they are doing.
Only a quarter of the team has broken 18 so far and only half have broken 20.
Maybe I’m wrong, but I think the majority of HS boys won’t ever break 18 despite running 5-6 days a week with better coaching than just going out and running.
I agree that "anyone can run 18 minutes with a little training" is a severe overstatement, but any decent sized team (I'm thinking 20+) should have somebody (probably multiple somebodies) who can break 18 if coaching is adequate.
Depending on the size of the school and culture of the area (running-wise) 20 boys or 20 girls may be a high bar to clear. I grew up racing teams from very rural schools in Mississippi, and most had a lot fewer. Even so, there were two small school in our area with over 20 boys on the team, who had really good spirit camraderie, and definitely trained. One of those schools never had a kid break 18 in my 4 years of high school, and the other had maybe one kid break 18. Mostly there was an 18's to 20s spread. Both of those boys teams were state champions in the smallest and next smallest divisions. I kid you not.