Boston Pacing

I'm going to go out at my target pace until the Newton hills. If I'm feeling bad at that point I'm just gonna try to hang on, if I'm feeling good I'll try to crush the hills and then hang on until the finish

There was a great thread on this the other day where they talk about strategy. I think I was a guy who asked if can run a 2:45.

I've never run Boston before, so this could be totally wrong. But my plan is to go out at my average goal pace for a 3:08 (7:10/mi) or a tiny bit slower, just not faster. Since the first 10K are downhill, that's actually a slower grade adjusted pace than my goal pace and amounts to a conservative start.

Then, from 6 miles 6 to 16, where it's flat or rolling without a large net up/down, I'll try to stay on that 7:10/mile pace. Assuming the conservative start allows me to adequately deal with the hills from 16-21, I'll probably loose a few minutes, but not a catastrophic amount (hopefully).

If I've got anything left after Heartbreak Hill, I'll try to regain whatever I've lost, on the last 10K which is somewhat downhill. With a recent PR of 3:05 (on a flat course) and having done significant hill work at race pace lately, I think it might work if conditions are reasonable. If not, live and learn.

PS - I'm going to purposely start in the back of my corral to keep myself conservative in the first few miles.

This idea is reckless. For one, just because lots of people have done it, doesn't make it optimal. More importantly, the chief benefit of planning a negative split is if you over-estimate your fitness level, you'll still have a soft landing. If you plan to run a positive split, and over-estimate your fitness, you turn it into a death march. Don't do that.

The key to Boston is staying under control the first 4 miles. Especially at the start, there are pretty significant downhills. Banking time the first few miles does not work because you are putting a lot more stress on your quads than you know. I would take it out 10-20% slower than goal pace on the first 4 miles. From mile 5-15, the course is very manageable with only some rolling hills. For that part of the course, focus on 5-10% faster than goal pace. The Newton hills are hard. You are going to lose time. Do not try to fight it. If you try to push through the hills, you will end up bonking hard by the time you reach heartbreak hill. Once you crest heartbreak hill, just hold on to MP and be ready to fight like hell to the finish. It is not a steady downhill to the finish. It is a net decline, but there are lots of rolling parts where you will still have some short uphill segments that will not be fun.

That makes total sense. I'm going for even 7:40s then. THanks.

The first 10k isn't downhill. it's net downhill. But there are rollers. And then going into Natick, there's a couple of real hills. this is where everyone screws up. They run the first 30k as if it's flat or downhill, and don't realize how much they're trashing their quads with the undulation. if you look at the map below, there are 6 "ups" before Newton.

You're not going to regain anything after Newton. If you don't have it in your legs before you get there, it's not magically coming back after; the stretch from Boston College to the finish is just too long.

do this:

Miles 1-18: preserve MP effort, without trying to bank time; the only thing you want to bank is juice in your legs

19-21: use exactly as much juice as you need to get through the hills

22-26: use the speed you haven't wasted yet in a CONTROLLED manner: you still have to get past BC, and all the way through Brookline, before you even taste Boston and the finish.

Image:trackandfieldnews.com/wp-content/uploa...

I've run Boston twice recently & have had two really good races, both with <1:00 positive splits but still a positive split. You shouldn't think of it as starting faster. You're running an even effort the whole way but just letting the course do its job. If you nail Boston, you're probably going to have something like a 1:00 positive split.

I would start off slightly slower than 3:20 marathon pace through the 1st 5k. Tons of people go out too fast at Boston. Let them go. Spend the back half of the race passing people. 3:20 is 7:37 pace so maybe you hit 7:45-8:00 pace through 5k. From 5k to 10k settle into marathon pace. Drop 7:35-7:40 pace from ~10k-25k. Think about effort. The splits will move around a little. Mile 16 should be your fastest of the race. If it isn't, you went out too hard.

Relax through the Newton Hills. Don't force goal pace. Focus on effort. Your 7:35-7:40 pace should naturally turn into 8:00 pace or so. You might lose 20-30s/mile. That's from 16-21, except mile 19 which is downhill. So you'll run 4 miles around 8-flat & 1 back at 7:35-40. If you've done all that & you get to the top of Heartbreak Hill feeling good, mile 22 should be even faster than mile 16 was. I'm saying faster but it happens on its own. You should run an effortless (sub) 7:30. Then it's a gentle downhill to the finish. Try to run 7:30 pace. You should be running something like 1:39:30 & 1:40:30.

& throw all of this out depending on the weather. If you get a warm weather day and/or a headwind you might have to make a time adjustment. This info is if you're ready for sub-3:20 at Boston on a good weather day, which might mean 3:15ish on a fast/flat course.

Thanks everyone this has been really informative. One question I have for those who have run is: Do the masses go out too hard for that critical first 4ish miles? I am in wave 2, corral 5, and it seems like I should aim for a 6:50ish type rhythm (I am looking to break 3 at minimum but maybe go for 2:55 if everything goes right). I am thinking from what people are saying many will (unwisely or in some cases they might be way fitter than their BQ) go out in 6:20s or 6:30s. I do have some friends running in later corrals who I could join or I could just run my own race, intentionally holding back.

I found this pace calculator to be very helpful. I ended up beating my goal by 2 minutes and running a 1 minute negative split.

You don't have to memorize it, but its helpful to see how slow you should be running the first two miles and the Newton hills.

runnersconnect.net

Boston Marathon Pace Calculator

The Boston Marathon Pace Calculator will help you establish the perfect target race pace over the fabled Boston Marathon hills. Get it now!

Link:runnersconnect.net/pace-calculator/

I haven't run Boston but I'm a 3:20 guy like you (3:20:01, ugh, so close to breaking 3:20 but whatever).

From my experience from those in my time group in Columbus who have run Boston the key was to start at 7:50-8:00 the first few miles and really save yourself for Heartbreak and the other three (3) hills.

So the first 3 miles, go 8:05, 7:55, maybe 7:50 and have a ton left over to use the rest of the race. If you can hit the 20-mile mark in 2:30-2:35 and you've passed most of the hills by mile 21 you can try to run a 43-46 10k to close home in 3:20-ish.

A woman I know who ran 3:20 at Boston last fall just ran a 3:17 at an Ohio course recently (flat, near Dayton) and did well.

If you run 3:20 in Boston you're probably 3:12-3:16 on a flat course!

It sounds like you could run your own race, and watch as some of the 6:20-6:30 peeps walk on the side by the fire station at Mile 17. (Not all, of course).

I'm nowhere near as fast as the studs here but if I were to run Boston I'd be happy to break 3:30 due to the tough nature of the course!

Horrible idea....conservative energy early, don't go nuts between Wellesley and the Fire Station (you feel good, easy to go too fast), run the hills strong but not out of control, and have some left for the last 5 miles. I thought I was in 3:16 shape last Oct, went 1:38 for the first half, ran too hard from 13-16, and had no quads for the last 5 miles. Ended up at 3:24.

If you want to go 3:20, do not go faster than 1:40 in the first half (and frankly, 1:42 may be better, imho).

Yeah people sprint like it's a mile race on the track. There's just too much hype at the start. There's also a lot of good runners & downhill miles so people can fake it for a bit & not really feel like they're running too hard even though they are.

If your goal is sub-3, I would honestly recommend 7:00 for mile 1 & not much fast through 5k. Work it down to 6:50 pace by 10k. Then let the 6:40s flow. 6:50ish rhythm might get you those 6:30s early on. It's a waste & not a gamble I'd be willing to take. You want legs for the last 5 miles. That's when you try to drop those splits.

It sounds like miles 21-26 are a net downhill but there are still hills as well. Old video but this is useful and this guy is short and to the point.

He has some very useful tips from 1:45 on:
First 5 miles is the dream maker/dream-breaker. Not a hard course if you race within yourself.

2:05--the first 10 miles running downhill, including first 4-5 miles, they "overrun" the course. Don't run 1 min faster than race pace (2:18) as you are still wasting energy.

Energy loss at mile 5 will kill you at mile 21. Conservative first 5 miles.

Run 8:00 pace through first 5-6 miles (3:07) if you want to run 3:30. If you are running 7 minute miles you'll bonk. You'll lose energy in the legs even if your cardio is good (3:38).

Miles 5-10: Shake out and do a few surges, but a few 3-minute bursts into Zone 3. Maybe 5-10 sec. faster than MP for a short period. Carry that pace to Miles 10.

Miles 10-15: A little bit of gain. Relaxed.

Mile 15.5-Mile 16: This is where the climb starts. Relax and get your legs ready.

Mile 16-21: Stay in mid-upper zone 3 level (5:30). You're not running up a mountain (5:35). You'll have fresh legs. It's only 150 feet of elevation from 16-21.

At the top of the hill you can turn Boston into a PR course (6:03). This is where runners are made (6:15). Cross the finish line with a new PR!

There aren't real hills left from 21 to the finish. Maybe the little overpass bump by Fenway but that's at 40k & you're just about done. It's a flyer from there to the finish. Problem is most people have already burned through their matches. Then they convince themselves they hit a big hill or something.

^QFE
As NERunner said, besides the little overpass bump there's not much rolling
hills or anything at that point. The problem for a lot of people is that
by this point they've either blown out their quads, hamstrings, calves, or in
my case last year, all three.

Here are my last two attempts at trying to finally run well at Boston:
2019: https://www.strava.com/activities/2292183820 (Ran 2:30:25 that fall)
2021: https://www.strava.com/activities/6097810561 (Came in with a 69:38
half that spring)

A couple things that I’ve learned from my last two times doing this:

People will take off like a bat out of hell. Even at the front end of things I had people with significantly higher bib numbers blowing by me left and right. I got nervous and started reacting and basically threw away my race plan right from the gun. Let them go. If you play your cards right, you’ll see them again soon.

Miles 1-4 have a combined elevation drop of ~260 or so feet. Really easy to rip these miles and pay for it later.

Crowds (Particularly the Scream Tunnel) are infectious. The energy will make you want to run faster. Relax, run your race. It’s all fun now, but the race doesn’t start until mile 17.

Between miles 15-16 is a massive downhill. If you’re already on the verge of your muscles blowing up, this will be that nail in the coffin before you hit the uphill section of the course.